root cause of ES/experts

I see what you mean, ian, about ES being so difficult to tackle
because no one really knows the root cause, including the 'experts'.

I know that i got very ill after taking this chinese herb for 18
months - the change in my physical health over that time was
dramatic - but i don't know exactly WHAT the herb did to me, but it
is as if something got (irreprerably?) broken.

I do not have enough money to spend on 'experts', and i'm afraid i do
not trust them, precisely because there is so much in it for them
financially to keep telling me that their way will work. I think
they can become narrow minded and convinced that THEIR way is the
only way, i don't think they're trying to con me, i believe that they
believe it themselves, but that doesn't mean its correct.

They are the ones who should pay US! Because we in effect are the
means by which they do their research. Go halves at least!

Whats more these theories seem to come and go, a treatment that is
hailed as a cure for this that and the other one decade is discovered
to be harmful the next. "Pagano" now seems to be a dirty word, for
example.

Who's to say that the obsessiveness and unhappinness and self-
flagellation that these incredibly strict diets induce don't
perpetuate ES? In some instances they just seem to be displacing the
illness, ie all that happens is that the focus changes. Instead of
spending ones whole life battling against the MW RF you spend your
whole life trying to eliminate the metals or parasites or whatever in
your gut.

Why do our bodies cease to be able to look after themselves?

One thing that is for sure, this illness is BUMMER.

J

PS. When in a previous post i described MW RF as the root cause,
what i meant was that of the EMFs that a person might be feeling they
have become suscepbible to, the MW RF is likely to be a major factor.



--- In [hidden email], "Ian Kemp" <ianandsue.kemp@u...> wrote:
>
> I think what this shows, again, is that we are all individuals and
that we
> can all have individual reactions. I know that whey protein has
helped a
> good number of people. On the other hand, others don't get on with
it at
> all (I think Sue had an adverse reaction).
>
>  
>
> "Experts" are OK as long as they, and we, recognize that general
principles
> may be overruled for a particular person's metabolism. In the case
of
> deep-seated chronic illness, it seems to me that too many doctors
and
> nutritionists have been happy to peddle the drugs, supplements or
herbs that
> help 90-95% of people, without doing tests to see whether the
patient's
> problems have a more deep-rooted underlying cause. It always seemed
> illogical to me to blame Sue's health problems on diet and to say
she should
> take lots of extra supplements, when she had always eaten very
healthily -
> more so than most people, including me!
>
>  
>
> I guess the parallel I would suggest is - if a fuse in your car
keeps
> blowing, you don't just keep replacing it by thicker and thicker
fuses (like
> high-dose supplements) - you try to find out the short-circuit that
makes it
> blow in the first place. Unfortunately we are even more complex
than cars Behalf Of Cara
> Sent: 23 November 2005 15:34
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [eSens] colostrum update (bad reaction to whey protein)
>
>  
>
> My husband has been having a flu-like reaction, apparently to raw
milk and
> colostrum for
> several days now, but following his intuition he has continued to
drink the
> stuff and very little
> else. Then, last night he drank some whey protein at our
naturopath's
> recommendation, to
> prepare for a root canal extraction next week. His reaction to the
whey
> protein was a striking
> contrast to his reaction to the colostrum. He describes the
difference as
> good sick vs bad
> sick, good pain vs. bad pain. Before he was feeling "regular pain"
like
> someone might who
> had the flu, and incidentally has slept better in the last few
nights than
> he had in a very long
> time, perhaps years. But when he drank the whey protein, he
actually felt
> the chemical
> reaction that the colostrum was promoting in his body stopped cold.
His
> blood once again
> feels "burning/stinging" (my word is "poisoned") the way it has
throughout
> most of his long
> illness. He was too ill and miserable to sleep at all last night.
>
> We don't think our doctors ever mean any harm, but this is why we
have
> learned to be
> skeptical of dietary and other expert medical advice. My husband
says he
> sensed his body
> rejecting the whey protein before he even took it, but his concern
about
> next week's dental
> procedure overruled his intuition in this case. So, the moral of
the story,
> I guess, is to trust
> our own bodies over the so-called experts. We'll be going back to a
mostly
> raw milk and
> colostrum fast (which was began inadvertently, by the way) and see
how that
> goes. We do feel
> that some important ground was lost last night, which is
frustrating. t=ms&k=Health+and+wellness&w1=Health+and+welln
>
ess&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=Healt
h+prom
>
otion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Business+health
+welln
> ess&c=6&s=187&.sig=lYI8B8UF6O4ROok_KpWbMQ> and wellness
>
> Health
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Health+wellness+product&w1=Health+and+w
>
ellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=H
ealth+
>
promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Business+he
alth+w
> ellness&c=6&s=187&.sig=7FG7KpKu_ab8sI-sfGXbBw> wellness product
>
> Health
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Health+and+wellness+program&w1=Health+a
>
nd+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&
w4=Hea
>
lth+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Busines
s+heal
> th+wellness&c=6&s=187&.sig=SdRoxwZKC3KlEgk4EdZDpQ> and wellness
program
>
>
> Health
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Health+promotion+and+wellness&w1=Health
>
+and+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+progra
m&w4=H
>
ealth+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Busin
ess+he
> alth+wellness&c=6&s=187&.sig=2N5rUTc4fwFZmwqyTa-mLw> promotion and
wellness
>
>
> Health
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w1=Health
>
+and+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+progra
m&w4=H
>
ealth+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Busin
ess+he
> alth+wellness&c=6&s=187&.sig=TWFLmBa9J_P4FmW0xiOmnw> and wellness
promotion
>
>
> Business
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Business+health+wellness&w1=Health+and+
>
wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=
Health
>
+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Business+h
ealth+ <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eSens> " on

> I know that i got very ill after taking this chinese herb for 18
> months - the change in my physical health over that time was
> dramatic - but i don't know exactly WHAT the herb did to me, but it
> is as if something got (irreprerably?) broken.

I haven't tried hardly any chinese herbs, but one thing I do remember
reading is that there is a big quality control problem with chinese
herbals, in that many are loaded with heavy metals. So again, heavy
metal poisoning may possibly be a root cause...

Marc

The other thing that concerns me about many of these ideas is the FEAR
factor. Lots of websites and books give details of possible
diseases/deficiencies with a big list of generalized possible symptoms.
It's all too easy to think you've got something, or start taking supplements
for it "just in case". And the STRESS and worry which this causes can be a
big factor in depressing the immune system and gut function further! I feel
it's no coincidence that ME and related illnesses have had their biggest
impact on people in modern high-stress jobs.



I'm lucky - I don't have ME or ES, and so I can eat a "normal" balanced
diet. But to read many of the websites, from the things I am eating or,
conversely, not taking, I ought to be practically at death's door!



This is NOT, of course, to deny that special diets, supplements or
treatments are useful and necessary for people with ES and other chronic
illnesses. The trouble is, finding which one works for you. Sue has 3
boxes of stuff which she has accumulated over the years! Most of them have
been ineffective, or worse, caused adverse reactions. Sometimes I feel very
angry at the plausible websites which have led her in the past to think "I
must have X, it's the magic bullet" or scaremongering "all these symptoms
could be caused by Y, so you've probably got it". I'm equally angry at the
NHS which seems to have neglected these areas almost completely, so that one
can't get useful diagnostic tests, or impartial advice on which things might
really work. Instead, one has to pay privately, or resort to guesswork when
faced with a mass of conflicting claims.



Ian

_____

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
canaryyuk
Sent: 24 November 2005 15:05
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [eSens] root cause of ES/experts



I see what you mean, ian, about ES being so difficult to tackle
because no one really knows the root cause, including the 'experts'.

I know that i got very ill after taking this chinese herb for 18
months - the change in my physical health over that time was
dramatic - but i don't know exactly WHAT the herb did to me, but it
is as if something got (irreprerably?) broken.

I do not have enough money to spend on 'experts', and i'm afraid i do
not trust them, precisely because there is so much in it for them
financially to keep telling me that their way will work. I think
they can become narrow minded and convinced that THEIR way is the
only way, i don't think they're trying to con me, i believe that they
believe it themselves, but that doesn't mean its correct.

They are the ones who should pay US! Because we in effect are the
means by which they do their research. Go halves at least!

Whats more these theories seem to come and go, a treatment that is
hailed as a cure for this that and the other one decade is discovered
to be harmful the next. "Pagano" now seems to be a dirty word, for
example.

Who's to say that the obsessiveness and unhappinness and self-
flagellation that these incredibly strict diets induce don't
perpetuate ES? In some instances they just seem to be displacing the
illness, ie all that happens is that the focus changes. Instead of
spending ones whole life battling against the MW RF you spend your
whole life trying to eliminate the metals or parasites or whatever in
your gut.

Why do our bodies cease to be able to look after themselves?

One thing that is for sure, this illness is BUMMER.

J

PS. When in a previous post i described MW RF as the root cause,
what i meant was that of the EMFs that a person might be feeling they
have become suscepbible to, the MW RF is likely to be a major factor.



--- In [hidden email], "Ian Kemp" <ianandsue.kemp@u...> wrote:
>
> I think what this shows, again, is that we are all individuals and
that we
> can all have individual reactions. I know that whey protein has
helped a
> good number of people. On the other hand, others don't get on with
it at
> all (I think Sue had an adverse reaction).
>
>
>
> "Experts" are OK as long as they, and we, recognize that general
principles
> may be overruled for a particular person's metabolism. In the case
of
> deep-seated chronic illness, it seems to me that too many doctors
and
> nutritionists have been happy to peddle the drugs, supplements or
herbs that
> help 90-95% of people, without doing tests to see whether the
patient's
> problems have a more deep-rooted underlying cause. It always seemed
> illogical to me to blame Sue's health problems on diet and to say
she should
> take lots of extra supplements, when she had always eaten very
healthily -
> more so than most people, including me!
>
>
>
> I guess the parallel I would suggest is - if a fuse in your car
keeps
> blowing, you don't just keep replacing it by thicker and thicker
fuses (like
> high-dose supplements) - you try to find out the short-circuit that
makes it
> blow in the first place. Unfortunately we are even more complex
than cars Behalf Of Cara
> Sent: 23 November 2005 15:34
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [eSens] colostrum update (bad reaction to whey protein)
>
>
>
> My husband has been having a flu-like reaction, apparently to raw
milk and
> colostrum for
> several days now, but following his intuition he has continued to
drink the
> stuff and very little
> else. Then, last night he drank some whey protein at our
naturopath's
> recommendation, to
> prepare for a root canal extraction next week. His reaction to the
whey
> protein was a striking
> contrast to his reaction to the colostrum. He describes the
difference as
> good sick vs bad
> sick, good pain vs. bad pain. Before he was feeling "regular pain"
like
> someone might who
> had the flu, and incidentally has slept better in the last few
nights than
> he had in a very long
> time, perhaps years. But when he drank the whey protein, he
actually felt
> the chemical
> reaction that the colostrum was promoting in his body stopped cold.
His
> blood once again
> feels "burning/stinging" (my word is "poisoned") the way it has
throughout
> most of his long
> illness. He was too ill and miserable to sleep at all last night.
>
> We don't think our doctors ever mean any harm, but this is why we
have
> learned to be
> skeptical of dietary and other expert medical advice. My husband
says he
> sensed his body
> rejecting the whey protein before he even took it, but his concern
about
> next week's dental
> procedure overruled his intuition in this case. So, the moral of
the story,
> I guess, is to trust
> our own bodies over the so-called experts. We'll be going back to a
mostly
> raw milk and
> colostrum fast (which was began inadvertently, by the way) and see
how that
> goes. We do feel
> that some important ground was lost last night, which is
frustrating. t=ms&k=Health+and+wellness&w1=Health+and+welln
>
ess&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=Healt
h+prom
>
otion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Business+health
+welln
> ess&c=6&s=187&.sig=lYI8B8UF6O4ROok_KpWbMQ> and wellness
>
> Health
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Health+wellness+product&w1=Health+and+w
>
ellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=H
ealth+
>
promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Business+he
alth+w
> ellness&c=6&s=187&.sig=7FG7KpKu_ab8sI-sfGXbBw> wellness product
>
> Health
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Health+and+wellness+program&w1=Health+a
>
nd+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&
w4=Hea
>
lth+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Busines
s+heal
> th+wellness&c=6&s=187&.sig=SdRoxwZKC3KlEgk4EdZDpQ> and wellness
program
>
>
> Health
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Health+promotion+and+wellness&w1=Health
>
+and+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+progra
m&w4=H
>
ealth+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Busin
ess+he
> alth+wellness&c=6&s=187&.sig=2N5rUTc4fwFZmwqyTa-mLw> promotion and
wellness
>
>
> Health
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w1=Health
>
+and+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+progra
m&w4=H
>
ealth+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Busin
ess+he
> alth+wellness&c=6&s=187&.sig=TWFLmBa9J_P4FmW0xiOmnw> and wellness
promotion
>
>
> Business
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Business+health+wellness&w1=Health+and+
>
wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=
Health
>
+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Business+h
ealth+ <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eSens> " on






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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello people,



I have recently joined your email group and I was a silent watcher (till now
:-)) so you don't know me.



After that short introduction, please let me say that I agree with Ian but
also, another thing that I want to remark is that, everyone is trying to
save "herself" or "himself". I mean, what good is there to shield your
living room or your house or your body, when the environment is literally
full in an insane way of electrosmog of every imaginable kind? Why there is
no research on how to stop the "disturbing component" (whatever it is,
scalar waves or EM fields, anybody knows ? ) of electricity sources
(generators, base stations etc.) and why nobody tries to stop it "at the
source" ? This seems quite interesting to me. Even "big people" like
physicists or electrical engineers who claim to accept the problem, work on
individual-concentrated solutions. If the mobile base station could be made
"safe" somehow, or the hyroelectric power plant's 50Hz output could be made
"safe", nobody would be trying to protect himself. Does anybody know of such
a research or why there is no such an effort? Is it really impossible to
find the disturbing part of the electrical phenomenon and filter it somehow?



Sayat



-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Ian
Kemp
Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 6:02 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: RE: [eSens] root cause of ES/experts



The other thing that concerns me about many of these ideas is the FEAR

factor. Lots of websites and books give details of possible

diseases/deficiencies with a big list of generalized possible symptoms.

It's all too easy to think you've got something, or start taking supplements

for it "just in case". And the STRESS and worry which this causes can be a

big factor in depressing the immune system and gut function further! I feel

it's no coincidence that ME and related illnesses have had their biggest

impact on people in modern high-stress jobs.







I'm lucky - I don't have ME or ES, and so I can eat a "normal" balanced

diet. But to read many of the websites, from the things I am eating or,

conversely, not taking, I ought to be practically at death's door!







This is NOT, of course, to deny that special diets, supplements or

treatments are useful and necessary for people with ES and other chronic

illnesses. The trouble is, finding which one works for you. Sue has 3

boxes of stuff which she has accumulated over the years! Most of them have

been ineffective, or worse, caused adverse reactions. Sometimes I feel very

angry at the plausible websites which have led her in the past to think "I

must have X, it's the magic bullet" or scaremongering "all these symptoms

could be caused by Y, so you've probably got it". I'm equally angry at the

NHS which seems to have neglected these areas almost completely, so that one

can't get useful diagnostic tests, or impartial advice on which things might

really work. Instead, one has to pay privately, or resort to guesswork when

faced with a mass of conflicting claims.







Ian



_____



From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of

canaryyuk

Sent: 24 November 2005 15:05

To: [hidden email]

Subject: [eSens] root cause of ES/experts







I see what you mean, ian, about ES being so difficult to tackle

because no one really knows the root cause, including the 'experts'.



I know that i got very ill after taking this chinese herb for 18

months - the change in my physical health over that time was

dramatic - but i don't know exactly WHAT the herb did to me, but it

is as if something got (irreprerably?) broken.



I do not have enough money to spend on 'experts', and i'm afraid i do

not trust them, precisely because there is so much in it for them

financially to keep telling me that their way will work. I think

they can become narrow minded and convinced that THEIR way is the

only way, i don't think they're trying to con me, i believe that they

believe it themselves, but that doesn't mean its correct.



They are the ones who should pay US! Because we in effect are the

means by which they do their research. Go halves at least!



Whats more these theories seem to come and go, a treatment that is

hailed as a cure for this that and the other one decade is discovered

to be harmful the next. "Pagano" now seems to be a dirty word, for

example.



Who's to say that the obsessiveness and unhappinness and self-

flagellation that these incredibly strict diets induce don't

perpetuate ES? In some instances they just seem to be displacing the

illness, ie all that happens is that the focus changes. Instead of

spending ones whole life battling against the MW RF you spend your

whole life trying to eliminate the metals or parasites or whatever in

your gut.



Why do our bodies cease to be able to look after themselves?



One thing that is for sure, this illness is BUMMER.



J



PS. When in a previous post i described MW RF as the root cause,

what i meant was that of the EMFs that a person might be feeling they

have become suscepbible to, the MW RF is likely to be a major factor.







--- In [hidden email], "Ian Kemp" <ianandsue.kemp@u...> wrote:

>

> I think what this shows, again, is that we are all individuals and

that we

> can all have individual reactions. I know that whey protein has

helped a

> good number of people. On the other hand, others don't get on with

it at

> all (I think Sue had an adverse reaction).

>

>

>

> "Experts" are OK as long as they, and we, recognize that general

principles

> may be overruled for a particular person's metabolism. In the case

of

> deep-seated chronic illness, it seems to me that too many doctors

and

> nutritionists have been happy to peddle the drugs, supplements or

herbs that

> help 90-95% of people, without doing tests to see whether the

patient's

> problems have a more deep-rooted underlying cause. It always seemed

> illogical to me to blame Sue's health problems on diet and to say

she should

> take lots of extra supplements, when she had always eaten very

healthily -

> more so than most people, including me!

>

>

>

> I guess the parallel I would suggest is - if a fuse in your car

keeps

> blowing, you don't just keep replacing it by thicker and thicker

fuses (like

> high-dose supplements) - you try to find out the short-circuit that

makes it

> blow in the first place. Unfortunately we are even more complex

than cars

> when it comes to trying to trace problems!

>

>

>

> Ian

>

>

>

> _____

>

> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On

Behalf Of Cara

> Sent: 23 November 2005 15:34

> To: [hidden email]

> Subject: [eSens] colostrum update (bad reaction to whey protein)

>

>

>

> My husband has been having a flu-like reaction, apparently to raw

milk and

> colostrum for

> several days now, but following his intuition he has continued to

drink the

> stuff and very little

> else. Then, last night he drank some whey protein at our

naturopath's

> recommendation, to

> prepare for a root canal extraction next week. His reaction to the

whey

> protein was a striking

> contrast to his reaction to the colostrum. He describes the

difference as

> good sick vs bad

> sick, good pain vs. bad pain. Before he was feeling "regular pain"

like

> someone might who

> had the flu, and incidentally has slept better in the last few

nights than

> he had in a very long

> time, perhaps years. But when he drank the whey protein, he

actually felt

> the chemical

> reaction that the colostrum was promoting in his body stopped cold.

His

> blood once again

> feels "burning/stinging" (my word is "poisoned") the way it has

throughout

> most of his long

> illness. He was too ill and miserable to sleep at all last night.

>

> We don't think our doctors ever mean any harm, but this is why we

have

> learned to be

> skeptical of dietary and other expert medical advice. My husband

says he

> sensed his body

> rejecting the whey protein before he even took it, but his concern

about

> next week's dental

> procedure overruled his intuition in this case. So, the moral of

the story,

> I guess, is to trust

> our own bodies over the so-called experts. We'll be going back to a

mostly

> raw milk and

> colostrum fast (which was began inadvertently, by the way) and see

how that

> goes. We do feel

> that some important ground was lost last night, which is

frustrating.

>

> Cara

>

>

>

>

>

>

> SPONSORED LINKS

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>

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Similar to what I was thinking with Cara's post about the whey
reaction too.

I have had the very same problem with people who market themselves as
healer types, and know less than me. Almost enough to make me go
into business for myself, but don't need the hassle.  

I've had people say "no one can be allergic to that", and other such
b.s.

A friend recently told me her naturopath, which I happen to know is
truly a quack, "cured her of fibromyalgia" treated her for
trichinosis. Well, if that was her problem, then fibromyalgia was
not her problem. It could be misdiagnosed as such, but to say the
latter is "always" the cause of the former is downright ignorant!It
just ticks me off, besides it gives a bad name to what could be the
most helpful resources available to mankind.

Listen to yourself always. I've used some Chinese herbs sparingly
over the past couple years, as I know someone new in that area.  
However I still go online and look up the info. on each ingredient.  
I'll give things a try, but in the dose I feel is right for me, which
is usually much less than recommended to start. Being people with CFS
usually are more sensitive to medicines and such to start, they are
only suppose to prescribe half the normal dose anyway.

For me, most Chinese herbs do not seem to work as well as U.S. That
may be because of not enough info. of what to suggest by the
practitioner, but also many, many of them I find lower blood
pressure, and blood sugar, which I already have both of, and have
nearly passed out taking these herbs a couple times.  

Not to say they're all bad. Astragalus has great benefit for me.  
Anyhow, there is something to be said for using botanicals that are
native to the area you are from. They just seem better adapted to
the area, same as we become adapted to where we are. Just like gut
flora and water conditons in various countries.

Done ranting.

Hope all have had a nice Thanksgiving in the U.S., by the way.

Sincerely,
~ Snoshoe

--- In [hidden email], "canaryyuk" <canary65@t...> wrote: do
> not trust them, precisely because there is so much in it for them
> financially to keep telling me that their way will work. I think
> they can become narrow minded and convinced that THEIR way is the
> only way, i don't think they're trying to con me, i believe that
they
> believe it themselves, but that doesn't mean its correct.
>
> They are the ones who should pay US! Because we in effect are the
> means by which they do their research. Go halves at least!
>
> Whats more these theories seem to come and go, a treatment that is
> hailed as a cure for this that and the other one decade is
discovered
> to be harmful the next. "Pagano" now seems to be a dirty word, for
> example.
>
> Who's to say that the obsessiveness and unhappinness and self-
> flagellation that these incredibly strict diets induce don't
> perpetuate ES? In some instances they just seem to be displacing
the
> illness, ie all that happens is that the focus changes. Instead of
> spending ones whole life battling against the MW RF you spend your
> whole life trying to eliminate the metals or parasites or whatever
in they
> have become suscepbible to, the MW RF is likely to be a major
factor.
>
>
>
> --- In [hidden email], "Ian Kemp" <ianandsue.kemp@u...>
wrote:
> >
> > I think what this shows, again, is that we are all individuals
and
> that we
> > can all have individual reactions. I know that whey protein has
> helped a
> > good number of people. On the other hand, others don't get on
with
> it at
> > all (I think Sue had an adverse reaction).
> >
> >  
> >
> > "Experts" are OK as long as they, and we, recognize that general
> principles
> > may be overruled for a particular person's metabolism. In the
case
> of
> > deep-seated chronic illness, it seems to me that too many doctors
> and
> > nutritionists have been happy to peddle the drugs, supplements or
> herbs that
> > help 90-95% of people, without doing tests to see whether the
> patient's
> > problems have a more deep-rooted underlying cause. It always
seemed that the
> whey
> > protein was a striking
> > contrast to his reaction to the colostrum. He describes the
> difference as
> > good sick vs bad
> > sick, good pain vs. bad pain. Before he was feeling "regular
pain"
> like
> > someone might who
> > had the flu, and incidentally has slept better in the last few
> nights than
> > he had in a very long
> > time, perhaps years. But when he drank the whey protein, he
> actually felt
> > the chemical
> > reaction that the colostrum was promoting in his body stopped
cold. concern
> about
> > next week's dental
> > procedure overruled his intuition in this case. So, the moral of
> the story,
> > I guess, is to trust
> > our own bodies over the so-called experts. We'll be going back to
a
> mostly
> > raw milk and
> > colostrum fast (which was began inadvertently, by the way) and
see ess&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=Healt
> h+prom
> >
>
otion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Business+health
> +welln
> > ess&c=6&s=187&.sig=lYI8B8UF6O4ROok_KpWbMQ> and wellness
> >
> > Health
> > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
> t=ms&k=Health+wellness+product&w1=Health+and+w
> >
>
ellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=H
> ealth+
> >
>
promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Business+he
> alth+w
> > ellness&c=6&s=187&.sig=7FG7KpKu_ab8sI-sfGXbBw> wellness product
> >
> > Health
> > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
> t=ms&k=Health+and+wellness+program&w1=Health+a
> >
>
nd+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&
> w4=Hea
> >
>
lth+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Busines +and+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+progra
> m&w4=H
> >
>
ealth+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Busin
> ess+he
> > alth+wellness&c=6&s=187&.sig=2N5rUTc4fwFZmwqyTa-mLw> promotion
and
> wellness
> >
> >
> > Health
> > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
> t=ms&k=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w1=Health
> >
>
+and+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+progra
> m&w4=H
> >
>
ealth+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Busin
> ess+he
> > alth+wellness&c=6&s=187&.sig=TWFLmBa9J_P4FmW0xiOmnw> and
wellness
> promotion
> >
> >
> > Business
> > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
> t=ms&k=Business+health+wellness&w1=Health+and+
> >
>
wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=
> Health
> >
>
+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Business+h

> Why there is no research on how to stop the "disturbing component"
> (whatever it is, scalar waves or EM fields, anybody knows ? ) of
> electricity sources (generators, base stations etc.) and why nobody
> tries to stop it "at the source" ?

Quantum Products has connected some version of their products
to the city power grid, but they were studying its effect on
air quality. See the very bottom of this page, titled
"Air Quality and Environmental Ecology":

http://www.natural-stress-reduction.com/summary-of-research.html

But I suspect the reason is that nobody is interested in paying
to fix the problem, and I'm sure that many don't even believe that
there *is* a problem!

Marc

Hi Marc,

That would be pretty amazing if they had more info on that air quality
than is on their website. Do you have a contact there we could
contact?

Oh and I put a summary of the Melbourne WHO conference at www.emfacts.
com , I thought I'd better keep our end in.

Regards Rowan C.


--- In [hidden email], Marc Martin <marc@u...> wrote:
>
> > Why there is no research on how to stop the "disturbing
component"
> > (whatever it is, scalar waves or EM fields, anybody knows ? ) of
> > electricity sources (generators, base stations etc.) and why
nobody

I get the impression that quite a lot of people in the nutrition /
naturopath / "alternative" medicine field (including some doctors) have got
into it because they had personal experience of being healed from chronic
illnesses via one of these routes, and are inspired to share it with others.
The good thing is that they are more likely to take chronic illness
seriously than many conventional doctors. The drawback is that they can
take a "one size fits all" view - because X worked so wonderfully for them,
they tend to think it is the bee's knees for everything, which is
unfortunately not the case. Understandable, though. I sometimes feel
inspired this way myself - then something comes along to bring me firmly
back down to earth and makes me realize how little I really know.



Ian

_____

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
snoshoe_2
Sent: 24 November 2005 22:01
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [eSens] Re: root cause of ES/experts



Similar to what I was thinking with Cara's post about the whey
reaction too.

I have had the very same problem with people who market themselves as
healer types, and know less than me. Almost enough to make me go
into business for myself, but don't need the hassle.

I've had people say "no one can be allergic to that", and other such
b.s.

A friend recently told me her naturopath, which I happen to know is
truly a quack, "cured her of fibromyalgia" treated her for
trichinosis. Well, if that was her problem, then fibromyalgia was
not her problem. It could be misdiagnosed as such, but to say the
latter is "always" the cause of the former is downright ignorant!It
just ticks me off, besides it gives a bad name to what could be the
most helpful resources available to mankind.

Listen to yourself always. I've used some Chinese herbs sparingly
over the past couple years, as I know someone new in that area.
However I still go online and look up the info. on each ingredient.
I'll give things a try, but in the dose I feel is right for me, which
is usually much less than recommended to start. Being people with CFS
usually are more sensitive to medicines and such to start, they are
only suppose to prescribe half the normal dose anyway.

For me, most Chinese herbs do not seem to work as well as U.S. That
may be because of not enough info. of what to suggest by the
practitioner, but also many, many of them I find lower blood
pressure, and blood sugar, which I already have both of, and have
nearly passed out taking these herbs a couple times.

Not to say they're all bad. Astragalus has great benefit for me.
Anyhow, there is something to be said for using botanicals that are
native to the area you are from. They just seem better adapted to
the area, same as we become adapted to where we are. Just like gut
flora and water conditons in various countries.

Done ranting.

Hope all have had a nice Thanksgiving in the U.S., by the way.

Sincerely,
~ Snoshoe

--- In [hidden email], "canaryyuk" <canary65@t...> wrote: do
> not trust them, precisely because there is so much in it for them
> financially to keep telling me that their way will work. I think
> they can become narrow minded and convinced that THEIR way is the
> only way, i don't think they're trying to con me, i believe that
they
> believe it themselves, but that doesn't mean its correct.
>
> They are the ones who should pay US! Because we in effect are the
> means by which they do their research. Go halves at least!
>
> Whats more these theories seem to come and go, a treatment that is
> hailed as a cure for this that and the other one decade is
discovered
> to be harmful the next. "Pagano" now seems to be a dirty word, for
> example.
>
> Who's to say that the obsessiveness and unhappinness and self-
> flagellation that these incredibly strict diets induce don't
> perpetuate ES? In some instances they just seem to be displacing
the
> illness, ie all that happens is that the focus changes. Instead of
> spending ones whole life battling against the MW RF you spend your
> whole life trying to eliminate the metals or parasites or whatever
in they
> have become suscepbible to, the MW RF is likely to be a major
factor.
>
>
>
> --- In [hidden email], "Ian Kemp" <ianandsue.kemp@u...>
wrote:
> >
> > I think what this shows, again, is that we are all individuals
and
> that we
> > can all have individual reactions. I know that whey protein has
> helped a
> > good number of people. On the other hand, others don't get on
with
> it at
> > all (I think Sue had an adverse reaction).
> >
> >
> >
> > "Experts" are OK as long as they, and we, recognize that general
> principles
> > may be overruled for a particular person's metabolism. In the
case
> of
> > deep-seated chronic illness, it seems to me that too many doctors
> and
> > nutritionists have been happy to peddle the drugs, supplements or
> herbs that
> > help 90-95% of people, without doing tests to see whether the
> patient's
> > problems have a more deep-rooted underlying cause. It always
seemed that the
> whey
> > protein was a striking
> > contrast to his reaction to the colostrum. He describes the
> difference as
> > good sick vs bad
> > sick, good pain vs. bad pain. Before he was feeling "regular
pain"
> like
> > someone might who
> > had the flu, and incidentally has slept better in the last few
> nights than
> > he had in a very long
> > time, perhaps years. But when he drank the whey protein, he
> actually felt
> > the chemical
> > reaction that the colostrum was promoting in his body stopped
cold. concern
> about
> > next week's dental
> > procedure overruled his intuition in this case. So, the moral of
> the story,
> > I guess, is to trust
> > our own bodies over the so-called experts. We'll be going back to
a
> mostly
> > raw milk and
> > colostrum fast (which was began inadvertently, by the way) and
see ess&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=Healt
> h+prom
> >
>
otion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Business+health
> +welln
> > ess&c=6&s=187&.sig=lYI8B8UF6O4ROok_KpWbMQ> and wellness
> >
> > Health
> > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
> t=ms&k=Health+wellness+product&w1=Health+and+w
> >
>
ellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=H
> ealth+
> >
>
promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Business+he
> alth+w
> > ellness&c=6&s=187&.sig=7FG7KpKu_ab8sI-sfGXbBw> wellness product
> >
> > Health
> > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
> t=ms&k=Health+and+wellness+program&w1=Health+a
> >
>
nd+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&
> w4=Hea
> >
>
lth+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Busines +and+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+progra
> m&w4=H
> >
>
ealth+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Busin
> ess+he
> > alth+wellness&c=6&s=187&.sig=2N5rUTc4fwFZmwqyTa-mLw> promotion
and
> wellness
> >
> >
> > Health
> > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
> t=ms&k=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w1=Health
> >
>
+and+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+progra
> m&w4=H
> >
>
ealth+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Busin
> ess+he
> > alth+wellness&c=6&s=187&.sig=TWFLmBa9J_P4FmW0xiOmnw> and
wellness
> promotion
> >
> >
> > Business
> > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
> t=ms&k=Business+health+wellness&w1=Health+and+
> >
>
wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=
> Health
> >
>
+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Business+h







SPONSORED LINKS


Health
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Health+and+wellness&w1=Health+and+welln
ess&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=Health+prom
otion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Business+health+welln
ess&c=6&s=187&.sig=lYI8B8UF6O4ROok_KpWbMQ> and wellness

Health
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Health+wellness+product&w1=Health+and+w
ellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=Health+
promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Business+health+w
ellness&c=6&s=187&.sig=7FG7KpKu_ab8sI-sfGXbBw> wellness product

Health
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Health+and+wellness+program&w1=Health+a
nd+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=Hea
lth+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Business+heal
th+wellness&c=6&s=187&.sig=SdRoxwZKC3KlEgk4EdZDpQ> and wellness program


Health
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Health+promotion+and+wellness&w1=Health
+and+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=H
ealth+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Business+he
alth+wellness&c=6&s=187&.sig=2N5rUTc4fwFZmwqyTa-mLw> promotion and wellness


Health
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w1=Health
+and+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=H
ealth+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Business+he
alth+wellness&c=6&s=187&.sig=TWFLmBa9J_P4FmW0xiOmnw> and wellness promotion


Business
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Business+health+wellness&w1=Health+and+
wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=Health
+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Business+health+
wellness&c=6&s=187&.sig=cq8JlfksEGFMRzKQ0DoSOA> health wellness



_____

YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



* Visit your group "eSens <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eSens> " on
the web.

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[hidden email]
<mailto:[hidden email]?subject=Unsubscribe>

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_____



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Agree with Marc's assessment - the other thing is that it seems to me that
people react in so many different ways to different wave types and
frequencies, that it would be an extremely difficult job to get rid of all
possible effects. Nevertheless, that's no reason not to look at it and have
a try. I guess though that this will only happen on the large scale if/when
the problem becomes more widespread and generally recognized. That may
happen - one doctor said to us recently that the number of people coming to
him with ES type problems has gone up very sharply in the last year or two.
With more and more widespread use of mobile phones held right next to the
brain, especially by children, I wonder what the next few years will bring.

Ian



_____

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Marc
Martin
Sent: 24 November 2005 23:54
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [eSens] Power Stations



> Why there is no research on how to stop the "disturbing component"
> (whatever it is, scalar waves or EM fields, anybody knows ? ) of
> electricity sources (generators, base stations etc.) and why nobody
> tries to stop it "at the source" ?

Quantum Products has connected some version of their products
to the city power grid, but they were studying its effect on
air quality. See the very bottom of this page, titled
"Air Quality and Environmental Ecology":

http://www.natural-stress-reduction.com/summary-of-research.html

But I suspect the reason is that nobody is interested in paying
to fix the problem, and I'm sure that many don't even believe that
there *is* a problem!

Marc



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YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



* Visit your group "eSens <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eSens> " on
the web.

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[hidden email]
<mailto:[hidden email]?subject=Unsubscribe>

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.



_____



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I'm not sure the moderator would ever allow the discussion to turn
into a political argument in the group. And that may be the direction
this is heading. But I would respond by saying that if I were still
a young man in my twenties and still had the energy of a young man
your words would be an inspiration to me. I see the world changing
at an extremely rapid pace without people thinking through all the
implications to what that change will bring. It's all short sighted
decision making. People who think short-sightedly are winning the
argument and the war of ideas. The only difference makers I see
these days are evil. They are changing the world and making a
difference but they are making it a much worse place to live.  
Moderates are crushed like an evil stone cut out of a mountain
rolling through the world crushing any voice that isn't far right
wing. I know my experience isn't typical but I see absolutely nobody
out there fighting for me and for what I need to survive as a human
and like the black hole that cares for nobody but itself that is what
one must become in order to survive. When nobody else gives a damn
about you then you must care about nobody else but yourself and you
don't have the energy to change the world. All your energy is now
directed at saving only yourself.  



--- In [hidden email], "Maral Arslanlioglu"
<sayatarslanlioglu@t...> wrote:
>
> Hello people,
>
>  
>
> I have recently joined your email group and I was a silent watcher
(till now
> :-)) so you don't know me.
>
>  
>
> After that short introduction, please let me say that I agree with
Ian but
> also, another thing that I want to remark is that, everyone is
trying to
> save "herself" or "himself". I mean, what good is there to shield
your
> living room or your house or your body, when the environment is
literally
> full in an insane way of electrosmog of every imaginable kind? Why
there is
> no research on how to stop the "disturbing component" (whatever it
is,
> scalar waves or EM fields, anybody knows ? ) of electricity sources
> (generators, base stations etc.) and why nobody tries to stop
it "at the
> source" ? This seems quite interesting to me. Even "big people" like
> physicists or electrical engineers who claim to accept the problem,
work on
> individual-concentrated solutions. If the mobile base station could
be made
> "safe" somehow, or the hyroelectric power plant's 50Hz output could
be made
> "safe", nobody would be trying to protect himself. Does anybody
know of such
> a research or why there is no such an effort? Is it really
impossible to
> find the disturbing part of the electrical phenomenon and filter it
somehow?
>
>  
>
> Sayat
>
>  
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
Behalf Of Ian
> Kemp
> Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 6:02 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: RE: [eSens] root cause of ES/experts
>
>  
>
> The other thing that concerns me about many of these ideas is the
FEAR
>
> factor. Lots of websites and books give details of possible
>
> diseases/deficiencies with a big list of generalized possible
symptoms.
>
> It's all too easy to think you've got something, or start taking
supplements
>
> for it "just in case". And the STRESS and worry which this causes
can be a
>
> big factor in depressing the immune system and gut function
further! I feel
>
> it's no coincidence that ME and related illnesses have had their
biggest balanced
>
> diet. But to read many of the websites, from the things I am
eating or, chronic
>
> illnesses. The trouble is, finding which one works for you. Sue
has 3
>
> boxes of stuff which she has accumulated over the years! Most of
them have
>
> been ineffective, or worse, caused adverse reactions. Sometimes I
feel very
>
> angry at the plausible websites which have led her in the past to
think "I
>
> must have X, it's the magic bullet" or scaremongering "all these
symptoms
>
> could be caused by Y, so you've probably got it". I'm equally
angry at the
>
> NHS which seems to have neglected these areas almost completely, so
that one
>
> can't get useful diagnostic tests, or impartial advice on which
things might
>
> really work. Instead, one has to pay privately, or resort to
guesswork when Behalf Of do
>
> not trust them, precisely because there is so much in it for them
>
> financially to keep telling me that their way will work. I think
>
> they can become narrow minded and convinced that THEIR way is the
>
> only way, i don't think they're trying to con me, i believe that
they discovered the
>
> illness, ie all that happens is that the focus changes. Instead of
>
> spending ones whole life battling against the MW RF you spend your
>
> whole life trying to eliminate the metals or parasites or whatever
in they
>
> have become suscepbible to, the MW RF is likely to be a major
factor.
>
>  
>
>  
>
>  
>
> --- In [hidden email], "Ian Kemp" <ianandsue.kemp@u...>
wrote:
>
> >
>
> > I think what this shows, again, is that we are all individuals
and
>
> that we
>
> > can all have individual reactions. I know that whey protein has
>
> helped a
>
> > good number of people. On the other hand, others don't get on
with case seemed that the pain" cold. concern a
>
> mostly
>
> > raw milk and
>
> > colostrum fast (which was began inadvertently, by the way) and
see ess&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=Healt
>
> h+prom
>
> >
>
>
otion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Business+health ellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=H
>
> ealth+
>
> >
>
>
promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Business+he nd+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&
>
> w4=Hea
>
> >
>
>
lth+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Busines +and+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+progra
>
> m&w4=H
>
> >
>
>
ealth+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Busin
>
> ess+he
>
> > alth+wellness&c=6&s=187&.sig=2N5rUTc4fwFZmwqyTa-mLw> promotion
and +and+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+progra
>
> m&w4=H
>
> >
>
>
ealth+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Busin
>
> ess+he
>
> > alth+wellness&c=6&s=187&.sig=TWFLmBa9J_P4FmW0xiOmnw> and
wellness wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=
>
> Health
>
> >
>
>
+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Business+h t=ms&k=Health+and+wellness&w1=Health+and+welln
>
>
ess&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=Healt
h+prom
>
>
otion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Business+health
+welln
>
> ess&c=6&s=187&.sig=lYI8B8UF6O4ROok_KpWbMQ> and wellness
>
>  
>
> Health
>
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Health+wellness+product&w1=Health+and+w
>
>
ellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=H
ealth+
>
>
promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Business+he
alth+w
>
> ellness&c=6&s=187&.sig=7FG7KpKu_ab8sI-sfGXbBw> wellness product
>
>  
>
> Health
>
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Health+and+wellness+program&w1=Health+a
>
>
nd+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&
w4=Hea
>
>
lth+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Busines
s+heal
>
> th+wellness&c=6&s=187&.sig=SdRoxwZKC3KlEgk4EdZDpQ> and wellness
program
>
>  
>
>  
>
> Health
>
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Health+promotion+and+wellness&w1=Health
>
>
+and+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+progra
m&w4=H
>
>
ealth+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Busin
ess+he
>
> alth+wellness&c=6&s=187&.sig=2N5rUTc4fwFZmwqyTa-mLw> promotion and
wellness
>
>  
>
>  
>
> Health
>
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w1=Health
>
>
+and+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+progra
m&w4=H
>
>
ealth+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Busin
ess+he
>
> alth+wellness&c=6&s=187&.sig=TWFLmBa9J_P4FmW0xiOmnw> and wellness
promotion
>
>  
>
>  
>
> Business
>
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Business+health+wellness&w1=Health+and+
>
>
wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=
Health
>
>
+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Business+h
ealth+ <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eSens> " on

What a very interesting post. I agree entirely about "the world changing
at an extremely rapid pace without people thinking through all the
implications to what that change will bring. ". Simple example - drugs can
only be tested for a year or two, so any effects of long-term use on people
will be unknown till they actually happen.



Whether it's actually possible to think about those implications thoroughly
is another matter - it's hard to forecast, and it becomes ever harder as the
pace of change gets faster. The Soviet Union went for centralized control,
with Five Year Plans - and look where it got them. But yes, it's still
important to try.



I feel the vast majority of people are shortsighted rather than evil. We
all tend to rely on our own experience and what we've been taught. Many
people nowadays are sceptical and disillusioned of things that are radically
new. That makes it harder for them to accept something like ES which has
appeared from nowhere and is outside their experience.



Ian

_____

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
quaixemen
Sent: 25 November 2005 13:23
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [eSens] Re: root cause of ES/experts




I'm not sure the moderator would ever allow the discussion to turn
into a political argument in the group. And that may be the direction
this is heading. But I would respond by saying that if I were still
a young man in my twenties and still had the energy of a young man
your words would be an inspiration to me. I see the world changing
at an extremely rapid pace without people thinking through all the
implications to what that change will bring. It's all short sighted
decision making. People who think short-sightedly are winning the
argument and the war of ideas. The only difference makers I see
these days are evil. They are changing the world and making a
difference but they are making it a much worse place to live.
Moderates are crushed like an evil stone cut out of a mountain
rolling through the world crushing any voice that isn't far right
wing. I know my experience isn't typical but I see absolutely nobody
out there fighting for me and for what I need to survive as a human
and like the black hole that cares for nobody but itself that is what
one must become in order to survive. When nobody else gives a damn
about you then you must care about nobody else but yourself and you
don't have the energy to change the world. All your energy is now
directed at saving only yourself.



--- In [hidden email], "Maral Arslanlioglu"
<sayatarslanlioglu@t...> wrote:
>
> Hello people,
>
>
>
> I have recently joined your email group and I was a silent watcher
(till now
> :-)) so you don't know me.
>
>
>
> After that short introduction, please let me say that I agree with
Ian but
> also, another thing that I want to remark is that, everyone is
trying to
> save "herself" or "himself". I mean, what good is there to shield
your
> living room or your house or your body, when the environment is
literally
> full in an insane way of electrosmog of every imaginable kind? Why
there is
> no research on how to stop the "disturbing component" (whatever it
is,
> scalar waves or EM fields, anybody knows ? ) of electricity sources
> (generators, base stations etc.) and why nobody tries to stop
it "at the
> source" ? This seems quite interesting to me. Even "big people" like
> physicists or electrical engineers who claim to accept the problem,
work on
> individual-concentrated solutions. If the mobile base station could
be made
> "safe" somehow, or the hyroelectric power plant's 50Hz output could
be made
> "safe", nobody would be trying to protect himself. Does anybody
know of such
> a research or why there is no such an effort? Is it really
impossible to
> find the disturbing part of the electrical phenomenon and filter it
somehow?
>
>
>
> Sayat
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
Behalf Of Ian
> Kemp
> Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 6:02 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: RE: [eSens] root cause of ES/experts
>
>
>
> The other thing that concerns me about many of these ideas is the
FEAR
>
> factor. Lots of websites and books give details of possible
>
> diseases/deficiencies with a big list of generalized possible
symptoms.
>
> It's all too easy to think you've got something, or start taking
supplements
>
> for it "just in case". And the STRESS and worry which this causes
can be a
>
> big factor in depressing the immune system and gut function
further! I feel
>
> it's no coincidence that ME and related illnesses have had their
biggest balanced
>
> diet. But to read many of the websites, from the things I am
eating or, chronic
>
> illnesses. The trouble is, finding which one works for you. Sue
has 3
>
> boxes of stuff which she has accumulated over the years! Most of
them have
>
> been ineffective, or worse, caused adverse reactions. Sometimes I
feel very
>
> angry at the plausible websites which have led her in the past to
think "I
>
> must have X, it's the magic bullet" or scaremongering "all these
symptoms
>
> could be caused by Y, so you've probably got it". I'm equally
angry at the
>
> NHS which seems to have neglected these areas almost completely, so
that one
>
> can't get useful diagnostic tests, or impartial advice on which
things might
>
> really work. Instead, one has to pay privately, or resort to
guesswork when Behalf Of do
>
> not trust them, precisely because there is so much in it for them
>
> financially to keep telling me that their way will work. I think
>
> they can become narrow minded and convinced that THEIR way is the
>
> only way, i don't think they're trying to con me, i believe that
they discovered the
>
> illness, ie all that happens is that the focus changes. Instead of
>
> spending ones whole life battling against the MW RF you spend your
>
> whole life trying to eliminate the metals or parasites or whatever
in they
>
> have become suscepbible to, the MW RF is likely to be a major
factor.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In [hidden email], "Ian Kemp" <ianandsue.kemp@u...>
wrote:
>
> >
>
> > I think what this shows, again, is that we are all individuals
and
>
> that we
>
> > can all have individual reactions. I know that whey protein has
>
> helped a
>
> > good number of people. On the other hand, others don't get on
with case seemed that the pain" cold. concern a
>
> mostly
>
> > raw milk and
>
> > colostrum fast (which was began inadvertently, by the way) and
see ess&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=Healt
>
> h+prom
>
> >
>
>
otion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Business+health ellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=H
>
> ealth+
>
> >
>
>
promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Business+he nd+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&
>
> w4=Hea
>
> >
>
>
lth+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Busines +and+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+progra
>
> m&w4=H
>
> >
>
>
ealth+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Busin
>
> ess+he
>
> > alth+wellness&c=6&s=187&.sig=2N5rUTc4fwFZmwqyTa-mLw> promotion
and +and+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+progra
>
> m&w4=H
>
> >
>
>
ealth+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Busin
>
> ess+he
>
> > alth+wellness&c=6&s=187&.sig=TWFLmBa9J_P4FmW0xiOmnw> and
wellness wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=
>
> Health
>
> >
>
>
+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Business+h t=ms&k=Health+and+wellness&w1=Health+and+welln
>
>
ess&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=Healt
h+prom
>
>
otion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Business+health
+welln
>
> ess&c=6&s=187&.sig=lYI8B8UF6O4ROok_KpWbMQ> and wellness
>
>
>
> Health
>
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Health+wellness+product&w1=Health+and+w
>
>
ellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=H
ealth+
>
>
promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Business+he
alth+w
>
> ellness&c=6&s=187&.sig=7FG7KpKu_ab8sI-sfGXbBw> wellness product
>
>
>
> Health
>
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Health+and+wellness+program&w1=Health+a
>
>
nd+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&
w4=Hea
>
>
lth+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Busines
s+heal
>
> th+wellness&c=6&s=187&.sig=SdRoxwZKC3KlEgk4EdZDpQ> and wellness
program
>
>
>
>
>
> Health
>
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Health+promotion+and+wellness&w1=Health
>
>
+and+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+progra
m&w4=H
>
>
ealth+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Busin
ess+he
>
> alth+wellness&c=6&s=187&.sig=2N5rUTc4fwFZmwqyTa-mLw> promotion and
wellness
>
>
>
>
>
> Health
>
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w1=Health
>
>
+and+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+progra
m&w4=H
>
>
ealth+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Busin
ess+he
>
> alth+wellness&c=6&s=187&.sig=TWFLmBa9J_P4FmW0xiOmnw> and wellness
promotion
>
>
>
>
>
> Business
>
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Business+health+wellness&w1=Health+and+
>
>
wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=
Health
>
>
+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Business+h
ealth+ <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eSens> " on







_____

YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



* Visit your group "eSens <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eSens> " on
the web.

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[hidden email]
<mailto:[hidden email]?subject=Unsubscribe>

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.



_____



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Marc, thank you for the link. It clearly shows that people are aware of both
the problem and the solution, and yes I agree with you that "money" is the
number one reason which keeps us suffering.

I agree with you Ian that the next few years has the potential to make the
difference. Like the cigarette issue, once nobody was thinking that one day
it will be banned from even the open space areas. But, EM problem is special
in its nature so that not only humans, but all the nature, trees, birds and
even weather is effected by it, so I hope the humanity will be quick enough
in grasping it's urgency. I personnaly find it very alarming.

Once again, thank you Marc, if we spread the news that these kind of
researches exist, hopefully one day it may light a lamp in the head of an
honest, good intended authority.

Sayat

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Ian
Kemp
Sent: Friday, November 25, 2005 2:22 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: RE: [eSens] Power Stations

Agree with Marc's assessment - the other thing is that it seems to me that
people react in so many different ways to different wave types and
frequencies, that it would be an extremely difficult job to get rid of all
possible effects. Nevertheless, that's no reason not to look at it and have
a try. I guess though that this will only happen on the large scale if/when
the problem becomes more widespread and generally recognized. That may
happen - one doctor said to us recently that the number of people coming to
him with ES type problems has gone up very sharply in the last year or two.
With more and more widespread use of mobile phones held right next to the
brain, especially by children, I wonder what the next few years will bring.

Ian



_____

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Marc
Martin
Sent: 24 November 2005 23:54
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [eSens] Power Stations



> Why there is no research on how to stop the "disturbing component"
> (whatever it is, scalar waves or EM fields, anybody knows ? ) of
> electricity sources (generators, base stations etc.) and why nobody
> tries to stop it "at the source" ?

Quantum Products has connected some version of their products
to the city power grid, but they were studying its effect on
air quality. See the very bottom of this page, titled
"Air Quality and Environmental Ecology":

http://www.natural-stress-reduction.com/summary-of-research.html

But I suspect the reason is that nobody is interested in paying
to fix the problem, and I'm sure that many don't even believe that
there *is* a problem!

Marc



_____

YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



* Visit your group "eSens <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eSens> " on
the web.

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[hidden email]
<mailto:[hidden email]?subject=Unsubscribe>

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.



_____



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





Yahoo! Groups Links








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

My intention was not to start a political argument but the problem itself
implies that something must be changed in the areas (electronic devices /
electrical power networks etc.) where people make great financial power. So
I accept that it indirectly turns into a political argument.

I totally agree with you quaixemen. Your description of the world's current
state is totally undeniable for me. But I want to keep up my hope. I don't
know what, but I constantly feel that we should do something.

Maybe a web wizard among ourself in this group can start a web campain over
the net so that a large number of ES people (and even non ES people who see
the problem) sign and maybe later it can be send to several authorities as a
letter. And most probably it will be just ignored. But trying to find
individual solutions, to my understanding, won't change anything planetwise.


Sayat


-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
quaixemen
Sent: Friday, November 25, 2005 3:23 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [eSens] Re: root cause of ES/experts


I'm not sure the moderator would ever allow the discussion to turn
into a political argument in the group. And that may be the direction
this is heading. But I would respond by saying that if I were still
a young man in my twenties and still had the energy of a young man
your words would be an inspiration to me. I see the world changing
at an extremely rapid pace without people thinking through all the
implications to what that change will bring. It's all short sighted
decision making. People who think short-sightedly are winning the
argument and the war of ideas. The only difference makers I see
these days are evil. They are changing the world and making a
difference but they are making it a much worse place to live.
Moderates are crushed like an evil stone cut out of a mountain
rolling through the world crushing any voice that isn't far right
wing. I know my experience isn't typical but I see absolutely nobody
out there fighting for me and for what I need to survive as a human
and like the black hole that cares for nobody but itself that is what
one must become in order to survive. When nobody else gives a damn
about you then you must care about nobody else but yourself and you
don't have the energy to change the world. All your energy is now
directed at saving only yourself.



--- In [hidden email], "Maral Arslanlioglu"
<sayatarslanlioglu@t...> wrote:
>
> Hello people,
>
>
>
> I have recently joined your email group and I was a silent watcher
(till now
> :-)) so you don't know me.
>
>
>
> After that short introduction, please let me say that I agree with
Ian but
> also, another thing that I want to remark is that, everyone is
trying to
> save "herself" or "himself". I mean, what good is there to shield
your
> living room or your house or your body, when the environment is
literally
> full in an insane way of electrosmog of every imaginable kind? Why
there is
> no research on how to stop the "disturbing component" (whatever it
is,
> scalar waves or EM fields, anybody knows ? ) of electricity sources
> (generators, base stations etc.) and why nobody tries to stop
it "at the
> source" ? This seems quite interesting to me. Even "big people" like
> physicists or electrical engineers who claim to accept the problem,
work on
> individual-concentrated solutions. If the mobile base station could
be made
> "safe" somehow, or the hyroelectric power plant's 50Hz output could
be made
> "safe", nobody would be trying to protect himself. Does anybody
know of such
> a research or why there is no such an effort? Is it really
impossible to
> find the disturbing part of the electrical phenomenon and filter it
somehow?
>
>
>
> Sayat
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
Behalf Of Ian
> Kemp
> Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 6:02 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: RE: [eSens] root cause of ES/experts
>
>
>
> The other thing that concerns me about many of these ideas is the
FEAR
>
> factor. Lots of websites and books give details of possible
>
> diseases/deficiencies with a big list of generalized possible
symptoms.
>
> It's all too easy to think you've got something, or start taking
supplements
>
> for it "just in case". And the STRESS and worry which this causes
can be a
>
> big factor in depressing the immune system and gut function
further! I feel
>
> it's no coincidence that ME and related illnesses have had their
biggest balanced
>
> diet. But to read many of the websites, from the things I am
eating or, chronic
>
> illnesses. The trouble is, finding which one works for you. Sue
has 3
>
> boxes of stuff which she has accumulated over the years! Most of
them have
>
> been ineffective, or worse, caused adverse reactions. Sometimes I
feel very
>
> angry at the plausible websites which have led her in the past to
think "I
>
> must have X, it's the magic bullet" or scaremongering "all these
symptoms
>
> could be caused by Y, so you've probably got it". I'm equally
angry at the
>
> NHS which seems to have neglected these areas almost completely, so
that one
>
> can't get useful diagnostic tests, or impartial advice on which
things might
>
> really work. Instead, one has to pay privately, or resort to
guesswork when Behalf Of do
>
> not trust them, precisely because there is so much in it for them
>
> financially to keep telling me that their way will work. I think
>
> they can become narrow minded and convinced that THEIR way is the
>
> only way, i don't think they're trying to con me, i believe that
they discovered the
>
> illness, ie all that happens is that the focus changes. Instead of
>
> spending ones whole life battling against the MW RF you spend your
>
> whole life trying to eliminate the metals or parasites or whatever
in they
>
> have become suscepbible to, the MW RF is likely to be a major
factor.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In [hidden email], "Ian Kemp" <ianandsue.kemp@u...>
wrote:
>
> >
>
> > I think what this shows, again, is that we are all individuals
and
>
> that we
>
> > can all have individual reactions. I know that whey protein has
>
> helped a
>
> > good number of people. On the other hand, others don't get on
with case seemed that the pain" cold. concern a
>
> mostly
>
> > raw milk and
>
> > colostrum fast (which was began inadvertently, by the way) and
see ess&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=Healt
>
> h+prom
>
> >
>
>
otion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Business+health ellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=H
>
> ealth+
>
> >
>
>
promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Business+he nd+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&
>
> w4=Hea
>
> >
>
>
lth+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Busines +and+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+progra
>
> m&w4=H
>
> >
>
>
ealth+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Busin
>
> ess+he
>
> > alth+wellness&c=6&s=187&.sig=2N5rUTc4fwFZmwqyTa-mLw> promotion
and +and+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+progra
>
> m&w4=H
>
> >
>
>
ealth+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Busin
>
> ess+he
>
> > alth+wellness&c=6&s=187&.sig=TWFLmBa9J_P4FmW0xiOmnw> and
wellness wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=
>
> Health
>
> >
>
>
+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Business+h t=ms&k=Health+and+wellness&w1=Health+and+welln
>
>
ess&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=Healt
h+prom
>
>
otion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Business+health
+welln
>
> ess&c=6&s=187&.sig=lYI8B8UF6O4ROok_KpWbMQ> and wellness
>
>
>
> Health
>
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Health+wellness+product&w1=Health+and+w
>
>
ellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=H
ealth+
>
>
promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Business+he
alth+w
>
> ellness&c=6&s=187&.sig=7FG7KpKu_ab8sI-sfGXbBw> wellness product
>
>
>
> Health
>
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Health+and+wellness+program&w1=Health+a
>
>
nd+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&
w4=Hea
>
>
lth+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Busines
s+heal
>
> th+wellness&c=6&s=187&.sig=SdRoxwZKC3KlEgk4EdZDpQ> and wellness
program
>
>
>
>
>
> Health
>
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Health+promotion+and+wellness&w1=Health
>
>
+and+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+progra
m&w4=H
>
>
ealth+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Busin
ess+he
>
> alth+wellness&c=6&s=187&.sig=2N5rUTc4fwFZmwqyTa-mLw> promotion and
wellness
>
>
>
>
>
> Health
>
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w1=Health
>
>
+and+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+progra
m&w4=H
>
>
ealth+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Busin
ess+he
>
> alth+wellness&c=6&s=187&.sig=TWFLmBa9J_P4FmW0xiOmnw> and wellness
promotion
>
>
>
>
>
> Business
>
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Business+health+wellness&w1=Health+and+
>
>
wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=
Health
>
>
+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Business+h
ealth+ <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eSens> " on








Yahoo! Groups Links








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> Maybe a web wizard among ourself in this group can start a web campain over
> the net so that a large number of ES people (and even non ES people who see
> the problem) sign and maybe later it can be send to several authorities as a
> letter. And most probably it will be just ignored. But trying to find
> individual solutions, to my understanding, won't change anything planetwise.

I believe there are already EMF activist websites and groups in
existence already. That is not the purpose of this group however, as
this group was started to specifically help people with electrical
hypersenstivity, so they could deal with their problems now rather
than wait for some day when the situation may be better (which
seems unlikely to me -- to me, things look to get worse, not better)

Marc

> That would be pretty amazing if they had more info on that air quality
> than is on their website. Do you have a contact there we could
> contact?

You might try their "Contact Us" page, at:

http://www.natural-stress-reduction.com/stress-reduction-contact-form.html

Marc

Hi,

For now, fight for yourself, with God's help. We are doing something do not give up. We are purifying body and mind to survive. The journey from dark into light is not always easy but worth it!! The rest will come later..

Love and Light

PS charles, if you happen to read this explain the title of your webpage as that baffles me, and I a Dutch (should it not be freedom from het bitje??_))

Freedom in Christ Jesus.

Sayat Arslanlioglu <[hidden email]> wrote:
My intention was not to start a political argument but the problem itself
implies that something must be changed in the areas (electronic devices /
electrical power networks etc.) where people make great financial power. So
I accept that it indirectly turns into a political argument.

I totally agree with you quaixemen. Your description of the world's current
state is totally undeniable for me. But I want to keep up my hope. I don't
know what, but I constantly feel that we should do something.

Maybe a web wizard among ourself in this group can start a web campain over
the net so that a large number of ES people (and even non ES people who see
the problem) sign and maybe later it can be send to several authorities as a
letter. And most probably it will be just ignored. But trying to find
individual solutions, to my understanding, won't change anything planetwise.


Sayat


-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
quaixemen
Sent: Friday, November 25, 2005 3:23 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [eSens] Re: root cause of ES/experts


I'm not sure the moderator would ever allow the discussion to turn
into a political argument in the group. And that may be the direction
this is heading. But I would respond by saying that if I were still
a young man in my twenties and still had the energy of a young man
your words would be an inspiration to me. I see the world changing
at an extremely rapid pace without people thinking through all the
implications to what that change will bring. It's all short sighted
decision making. People who think short-sightedly are winning the
argument and the war of ideas. The only difference makers I see
these days are evil. They are changing the world and making a
difference but they are making it a much worse place to live.
Moderates are crushed like an evil stone cut out of a mountain
rolling through the world crushing any voice that isn't far right
wing. I know my experience isn't typical but I see absolutely nobody
out there fighting for me and for what I need to survive as a human
and like the black hole that cares for nobody but itself that is what
one must become in order to survive. When nobody else gives a damn
about you then you must care about nobody else but yourself and you
don't have the energy to change the world. All your energy is now
directed at saving only yourself.



--- In [hidden email], "Maral Arslanlioglu"
<sayatarslanlioglu@t...> wrote:
>
> Hello people,
>
>
>
> I have recently joined your email group and I was a silent watcher
(till now
> :-)) so you don't know me.
>
>
>
> After that short introduction, please let me say that I agree with
Ian but
> also, another thing that I want to remark is that, everyone is
trying to
> save "herself" or "himself". I mean, what good is there to shield
your
> living room or your house or your body, when the environment is
literally
> full in an insane way of electrosmog of every imaginable kind? Why
there is
> no research on how to stop the "disturbing component" (whatever it
is,
> scalar waves or EM fields, anybody knows ? ) of electricity sources
> (generators, base stations etc.) and why nobody tries to stop
it "at the
> source" ? This seems quite interesting to me. Even "big people" like
> physicists or electrical engineers who claim to accept the problem,
work on
> individual-concentrated solutions. If the mobile base station could
be made
> "safe" somehow, or the hyroelectric power plant's 50Hz output could
be made
> "safe", nobody would be trying to protect himself. Does anybody
know of such
> a research or why there is no such an effort? Is it really
impossible to
> find the disturbing part of the electrical phenomenon and filter it
somehow?
>
>
>
> Sayat
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On
Behalf Of Ian
> Kemp
> Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 6:02 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: RE: [eSens] root cause of ES/experts
>
>
>
> The other thing that concerns me about many of these ideas is the
FEAR
>
> factor. Lots of websites and books give details of possible
>
> diseases/deficiencies with a big list of generalized possible
symptoms.
>
> It's all too easy to think you've got something, or start taking
supplements
>
> for it "just in case". And the STRESS and worry which this causes
can be a
>
> big factor in depressing the immune system and gut function
further! I feel
>
> it's no coincidence that ME and related illnesses have had their
biggest balanced
>
> diet. But to read many of the websites, from the things I am
eating or, chronic
>
> illnesses. The trouble is, finding which one works for you. Sue
has 3
>
> boxes of stuff which she has accumulated over the years! Most of
them have
>
> been ineffective, or worse, caused adverse reactions. Sometimes I
feel very
>
> angry at the plausible websites which have led her in the past to
think "I
>
> must have X, it's the magic bullet" or scaremongering "all these
symptoms
>
> could be caused by Y, so you've probably got it". I'm equally
angry at the
>
> NHS which seems to have neglected these areas almost completely, so
that one
>
> can't get useful diagnostic tests, or impartial advice on which
things might
>
> really work. Instead, one has to pay privately, or resort to
guesswork when Behalf Of do
>
> not trust them, precisely because there is so much in it for them
>
> financially to keep telling me that their way will work. I think
>
> they can become narrow minded and convinced that THEIR way is the
>
> only way, i don't think they're trying to con me, i believe that
they discovered the
>
> illness, ie all that happens is that the focus changes. Instead of
>
> spending ones whole life battling against the MW RF you spend your
>
> whole life trying to eliminate the metals or parasites or whatever
in they
>
> have become suscepbible to, the MW RF is likely to be a major
factor.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In [hidden email], "Ian Kemp" <ianandsue.kemp@u...>
wrote:
>
> >
>
> > I think what this shows, again, is that we are all individuals
and
>
> that we
>
> > can all have individual reactions. I know that whey protein has
>
> helped a
>
> > good number of people. On the other hand, others don't get on
with case seemed that the pain" cold. concern a
>
> mostly
>
> > raw milk and
>
> > colostrum fast (which was began inadvertently, by the way) and
see ess&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=Healt
>
> h+prom
>
> >
>
>
otion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Business+health ellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=H
>
> ealth+
>
> >
>
>
promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Business+he nd+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&
>
> w4=Hea
>
> >
>
>
lth+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Busines +and+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+progra
>
> m&w4=H
>
> >
>
>
ealth+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Busin
>
> ess+he
>
> > alth+wellness&c=6&s=187&.sig=2N5rUTc4fwFZmwqyTa-mLw> promotion
and +and+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+progra
>
> m&w4=H
>
> >
>
>
ealth+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Busin
>
> ess+he
>
> > alth+wellness&c=6&s=187&.sig=TWFLmBa9J_P4FmW0xiOmnw> and
wellness wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=
>
> Health
>
> >
>
>
+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Business+h t=ms&k=Health+and+wellness&w1=Health+and+welln
>
>
ess&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=Healt
h+prom
>
>
otion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Business+health
+welln
>
> ess&c=6&s=187&.sig=lYI8B8UF6O4ROok_KpWbMQ> and wellness
>
>
>
> Health
>
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Health+wellness+product&w1=Health+and+w
>
>
ellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&w4=H
ealth+
>
>
promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Business+he
alth+w
>
> ellness&c=6&s=187&.sig=7FG7KpKu_ab8sI-sfGXbBw> wellness product
>
>
>
> Health
>
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Health+and+wellness+program&w1=Health+a
>
>
nd+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+program&
w4=Hea
>
>
lth+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Busines
s+heal
>
> th+wellness&c=6&s=187&.sig=SdRoxwZKC3KlEgk4EdZDpQ> and wellness
program
>
>
>
>
>
> Health
>
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Health+promotion+and+wellness&w1=Health
>
>
+and+wellness&w2=Health+wellness+product&w3=Health+and+wellness+progra
m&w4=H
>
>
ealth+promotion+and+wellness&w5=Health+and+wellness+promotion&w6=Busin
ess+he
>
> alth+wellness&c=6&s=187&.sig=2N5rUTc4fwFZmwqyTa-mLw> promotion and
wellness
>
>
>
>
>
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Hi Sayat,

First, welcome to the group. I agree with most of the responses (from Marc,Ian, Jane,
quaixemen, etc) to your original question. I agree with even those who seem, on the
surface, to disagree about root causes and the best treatment approach/focus. :-)  

In response to your question about why we don't take our search for a cure to ES "straight
to the source" (you mentioned power plants), at the risk of stating the obvious I'll point out
that our understanding of the very subtle, complex problem of ES is its infancy. About a
year ago someone (Glenn or Andrew I think) described this group as a makeshift research
laboratory for ES. We're both the scientists and the lab rats unfortunately. As long as the
medical/industrial/political establishment is determined deny this problem,we're on our
own trying to find remedies. Are these remedies painfully, pathetically limited? Sure. And
as long as the people who recognize and understand this illness best stay sick, our ability
to agitate politically for proper research and a comprehensive solution will be seriously
compromised. Would I like to march on the White House, PG&E, the American Dental
Association, and the World Health Organization? Write letters to the editoror a give
speeches around my neighborhood trumpeting the dangers of EMFs? Yup. Do I have the
energy to do this right now? Nope. Someday, I hope I will. And I'm gratefulto others
(including some on this list) who are enough recovered from ES that they are making some
of these efforts on our behalf.

In the meantime, as Marc pointed out, we come to this list to share our piecemeal
solutions that sometimes work for others in the group, and sometimes not. It may seem
very little given the magnitude of the problem, but this pooling of information has been a
lifeline to me.

~ Cara


--- In [hidden email], "Sayat Arslanlioglu" <sayatarslanlioglu@t...>wrote:
> > Sayat
> >
> >  
> >