research

I finally spared some time to try to make a new sub-group, related to research and theoretical rationalization of these issues - which we are here at Esens already elaborating, just on a more practical level...

Here is the invitation letter I drafted, so I am firstly sending it to you, as to hear your suggestions regarding possible corrections:

------------------
The Electrosensitivity phenomenon had initially been attributed to a radiation model ("energy adsorption causes cell damage"). One of the reasons for lack of scientific recognition of the phenomenon is inapplicability of that model. Among worst failures of the model is the Electrosensitive persons (as well as experimental mice) often tend to avoid shielded rooms.
This group is an attempt to draft a new model, firstly by reconsideration of available materials, which are primarily anecdotal subjective statements, and the available scientific articles and opinions. Separation of facts from buildup and extrapolation would be difficult, but maybe not impossible, if we combine hard scientific reasoning with intuition, empathy and introspection. Therefore specially welcome are researchers who are personally invested with the issue, preferably ES themselves. But also open minded scientists and ES survivors who have some knowledge of the issue.
------------------

So, how does it look?

Drasko

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1387972/Cancer-survivor-sensitive-electric-gadgets-live-candlelight.html





   
     

   
   


 



 










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> The Electrosensitivity phenomenon had initially been attributed to a radiation model ("energy adsorption causes cell damage"). One of the reasons for lack of scientific recognition of the phenomenon is inapplicability of that model. Among worst failures of the model is the Electrosensitive persons (as well as experimental mice) often tend to avoid shielded rooms.
> This group is an attempt to draft a new model, firstly by reconsideration of available materials, which are primarily anecdotal subjective statements, and the available scientific articles and opinions. Separation of facts from buildup and extrapolation would be difficult, but maybe not impossible, if we combine hard scientific reasoning with intuition, empathy and introspection. Therefore specially welcome are researchers who are personally invested with the issue, preferably ES themselves. But also open minded scientists and ES survivors who have some knowledge of the issue.
> ------------------
>
> So, how does it look?

That looks good, but is a another ES group really needed?  I realize that eSens is supposed to be a practical, "what works or doesn't work for me" group, but I don't think anyone is prevented from suggesting theories to explain their reactions.

Marc

Hello Drasko,

you wrote:  *combine hard scientific reasoning*

I take part in quite a number of lists and forums.

*hard scientific reasoning* is not available.

Not even at BEMS.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes.nl
www.milieuziektes.be
www.hetbitje.nl
checked by Norton
 


  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Drasko
  To: [hidden email]
  Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 2:22 PM
  Subject: [eSens] research



  I finally spared some time to try to make a new sub-group, related to research and theoretical rationalization of these issues - which we are here at Esens already elaborating, just on a more practical level...

  Here is the invitation letter I drafted, so I am firstly sending it to you, as to hear your suggestions regarding possible corrections:

  ------------------
  The Electrosensitivity phenomenon had initially been attributed to a radiation model ("energy adsorption causes cell damage"). One of the reasons for lack of scientific recognition of the phenomenon is inapplicability of that model. Among worst failures of the model is the Electrosensitive persons (as well as experimental mice) often tend to avoid shielded rooms.
  This group is an attempt to draft a new model, firstly by reconsideration of available materials, which are primarily anecdotal subjective statements, and the available scientific articles and opinions. Separation of facts from buildup and extrapolation would be difficult, but maybe not impossible, if we combine hard scientific reasoning with intuition, empathy and introspection. Therefore specially welcome are researchers who are personally invested with the issue, preferably ES themselves. But also open minded scientists and ES survivors who have some knowledge of the issue.
  ------------------

  So, how does it look?

  Drasko




  ------------------------------------

  Yahoo! Groups Links





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi, Marc,
Having greatest respect for your work on this list, I by no means would like to split attention towards a similar list, therefore as I mentioned I liked it to be a kind of part of this, a sub-group to Esens...
I myself don't like there are "competitive" lists like Bioelectromagnetics, Emfrefugee, etc. which have even some same participants and some same postings as here...

My attempt is to make something complementary and coordinated. Inserting disciplined and moderated discussions into this already profiled group would have been too demanding both for the rest of the this group, and for those who would like to focus on particular subjects in depth, I think.
Also, I plan to send occasional reports here to hear the opinions on the conclusions.
One more thing: maybe I din't make it clear, but my accent is more focused towards separating facts, than to offering theories, so there is work to be done - if I succeed in collecting enough people interested to work and oppose thoughts through constructive discussions...

So do I have your agreement something such won't interfere with this list (much)?

Drasko


--- In [hidden email], "Marc Martin" <marc@...> wrote:

> I myself don't like there are "competitive" lists like Bioelectromagnetics, Emfrefugee, etc.
> which have even some same participants and some same postings as here...

I don't see those groups as "competing" with eSens -- eSens has its own focus, which I
think is different than the focus in those groups.  I think "EMF Refugee" is *supposed*
to be about finding places where there are low levels of EMF, but in reality they seem to
discuss almost anything related to EMF.  The main problem I see with that group is
that there are some close-minded people that prevent an open discussion.

So yes, if you want to create another group that has its own specific focus and rules
which differ from this one, then please do!  Those who are interested can be members
of both groups...

Marc

Hi, Marc,
Having greatest respect for your work on this list, I by no means would like to split attention towards a similar list, therefore as I mentioned I liked it to be a kind of part of this, a sub-group to Esens...
I myself don't like there are "competitive" lists like Bioelectromagnetics, Emfrefugee, etc. which have even some same participants and some same postings as here...

My attempt is to make something complementary and coordinated. Inserting disciplined and moderated discussions into this already profiled group would have been too demanding both for the rest of the this group, and for those who would like to focus on particular subjects in depth, I think.
Also, I plan to send occasional reports here to hear the opinions on the conclusions.
One more thing: maybe I din't make it clear, but my accent is more focused towards separating facts, than to offering theories, so there is work to be done - if I succeed in collecting enough people interested to work and oppose thoughts through constructive discussions...

So do I have your agreement something such won't interfere with this list (much)?

Drasko


--- In [hidden email], "Marc Martin" <marc@...> wrote:

Hello Drasko,

I don't see what you would like to accomplish here.

Would you like to start about discussing for instance the theme *longitudinal waves* ?

Or the *SFT* (Self Field Theory) by which many things can be explained which the quantum theory is not capable of?

There are other lists where such items are discussed, by scientists.
Where they are researching the use of magnetical fields in order to obtain anesthesia and narcosis.

Or the phenomenon of *dirty air* of which I seem the only person capable of measuring it?
(Why the Stetzer filters and the Stetzer meter are inadequate and insufficient.)

I see postings passing by of people who would like to assemble a body voltage meter, without the elementary knowledge how to measure it properly, and thus coming to faulty conclusions.

So, who is going to discuss?
I am certainly not adequate enough.

And who is?

Sure, you do have a number of questions for which you would like to have answers.
I also do.

But in order to get useful answers we have to step outside of the normal channels of paradigmas.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes.nl
www.milieuziektes.be
www.hetbitje.nl
checked by Norton


  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Drasko
  To: [hidden email]
  Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2011 7:41 PM
  Subject: [eSens] Re: research



  Hi, Marc,
  Having greatest respect for your work on this list, I by no means would like to split attention towards a similar list, therefore as I mentioned I liked it to be a kind of part of this, a sub-group to Esens...
  I myself don't like there are "competitive" lists like Bioelectromagnetics, Emfrefugee, etc. which have even some same participants and some same postings as here...

  My attempt is to make something complementary and coordinated. Inserting disciplined and moderated discussions into this already profiled group would have been too demanding both for the rest of the this group, and for those who would like to focus on particular subjects in depth, I think.
  Also, I plan to send occasional reports here to hear the opinions on the conclusions.
  One more thing: maybe I din't make it clear, but my accent is more focused towards separating facts, than to offering theories, so there is work to be done - if I succeed in collecting enough people interested to work and oppose thoughts through constructive discussions...

  So do I have your agreement something such won't interfere with this list (much)?

  Drasko


  --- In [hidden email], "Marc Martin" <marc@...> wrote:
  >
  > > The Electrosensitivity phenomenon had initially been attributed to a radiation model ("energy adsorption causes cell damage"). One of the reasons for lack of scientific recognition of the phenomenon is inapplicability of that model. Among worst failures of the model is the Electrosensitive persons (as well as experimental mice) often tend to avoid shielded rooms.
  > > This group is an attempt to draft a new model, firstly by reconsideration of available materials, which are primarily anecdotal subjective statements, and the available scientific articles and opinions. Separation of facts from buildup and extrapolation would be difficult, but maybe not impossible, if we combine hard scientific reasoning with intuition, empathy and introspection. Therefore specially welcome are researchers who are personally invested with the issue, preferably ES themselves. But also open minded scientists and ES survivors who have some knowledge of the issue.
  > > ------------------
  > >
  > > So, how does it look?
  >
  > That looks good, but is a another ES group really needed?  I realize that eSens is supposed to be a practical, "what works or doesn't work for me" group, but I don't think anyone is prevented from suggesting theories to explain their reactions.
  >
  > Marc
  >




  ------------------------------------

  Yahoo! Groups Links





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