reply to Drasko re. ground current

Drasko wrote:

I want to tell you that you shouldn't believe everything you read. The fact
that 75% of current returns through ground is simply not even near truth.

Shivani replies:
E.P.R.I.( Electrical Power Research Institute), the official research
and advisory body of the North American electrical utilities, stated in 1995
that 70% of phase current returns to the substations via the earth. In 1998
the final report of the science advisors to the Minnesota Public Utilites
Commission found the same.
In Wisconsin and other states the PSCs have given the utilites
permission to ground the distribution pole neutrals, which are supposed to return the
current to the substations, onto the ground, from where it returns to the
substations.
Since the above statements were made, the % of high frequency in our
loads has increased, so the % of current returning to the substations via the
earth has also increased since these findings were made public.

Drasko wrote:
Similarly, the issue with kHz pollution from home wiring also seems to be
generally exaggerated in the texts that mains filter manufacturers present,
as I had already commented to you before. Something in kHz range does come
out of wires but not nearly as they present.

Shivani replies:
Well, here you need to name the manufacturers you are talking about.
The information on Stetzer's site is accurate. Others I am not familiar
with.
I commonly find levels of 200 or 300 GS units in homes. Even up to
1800! 20 is the "synptom-free" level.
Of course, what will matter for each individual or family is exactly
what their own exposure is. Only one way to know. Test.

Drasko wrote:
Anyway, I don't deny that the ground currents and "electropollution" (the
way you define it) could have been a source of some trouble, but they give
much smaller readings at the objective meters than you would have imagined
it!

Shivani replies:
Please be specific. What kind of meters are you using, and what kind
of readings are you finding?

Drasko wrote:
I hope you don't mind a bit of criticism!

Shivani replies:
Criticism is pointless. Facts are what count.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I am happy, Shivani, that you, as I do, appreciate facts!
So let's check those two:

1. I must say I am really not familiar with the situation in US, but I would
appreciate if Beau or Emil or someone from US inclined to technical issues
commented your statements about earth being used instead of neutral wire
(what you said means that, practically). I can't believe it happens that
way, but I am ready to hear the proven facts. At least you would have got
constant readings at Gauss meters about 10-100 mG or even more near the
street (low voltage) powerlines. (I think that someone has missinterpreted
something regarding the report you mention.)

2. "GS units" mean - nothing! I have seen myself that "Stetzer meters" react
to vicinity of wires, but what they measure I still don't know. As you seem
to be in a contact with them at Stetzer's you might ask what the GS units
stand for. I am curious myself.
I have numerous meters, and can hire others, so just let's talk about the
figures! (Figures presuming usage of SI sistem of measurements what means
values like Tesla, Volt, Watt, meter, second, etc. :-))

Drasko

----- Original Message -----
From: <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2005 1:11 AM
Subject: [eSens] reply to Drasko re. ground current


> Drasko wrote:
>
> I want to tell you that you shouldn't believe everything you read. The
fact
> that 75% of current returns through ground is simply not even near truth.
>
> Shivani replies:
> E.P.R.I.( Electrical Power Research Institute), the official research
> and advisory body of the North American electrical utilities, stated in
1995
> that 70% of phase current returns to the substations via the earth. In
1998
> the final report of the science advisors to the Minnesota Public Utilites
> Commission found the same.
> In Wisconsin and other states the PSCs have given the utilites
> permission to ground the distribution pole neutrals, which are supposed to
return the
> current to the substations, onto the ground, from where it returns to the
> substations.
> Since the above statements were made, the % of high frequency in our
> loads has increased, so the % of current returning to the substations via
the
> earth has also increased since these findings were made public.
>
> Drasko wrote:
> Similarly, the issue with kHz pollution from home wiring also seems to be
> generally exaggerated in the texts that mains filter manufacturers
present, kind

hello Drasko,

"GS units" means Grahame/Stetzer Units.

The guidline is less than 50.
So, if you measure 24, it is all right.
If it is 200, than something is not all right, and there may be a HF
overload on the line.
If you measure 1280, than something is terribly wrong, as I have
encountered.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes.nl
www.milieuziektes.be
www.hetbitje.nl
checked by Norton Antivirus


----- Original Message -----
From: "Drasko Cvijovic" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2005 12:45
Subject: Re: [eSens] reply to Drasko re. ground current


> I am happy, Shivani, that you, as I do, appreciate facts!
> So let's check those two:
>
> 1. I must say I am really not familiar with the situation in US, but I
would
> appreciate if Beau or Emil or someone from US inclined to technical issues
> commented your statements about earth being used instead of neutral wire
> (what you said means that, practically). I can't believe it happens that
> way, but I am ready to hear the proven facts. At least you would have got
> constant readings at Gauss meters about 10-100 mG or even more near the
> street (low voltage) powerlines. (I think that someone has
missinterpreted
> something regarding the report you mention.)
>
> 2. "GS units" mean - nothing! I have seen myself that "Stetzer meters"
react
> to vicinity of wires, but what they measure I still don't know. As you
seem truth.
> >
> > Shivani replies:
> > E.P.R.I.( Electrical Power Research Institute), the official
research
> > and advisory body of the North American electrical utilities, stated in
> 1995
> > that 70% of phase current returns to the substations via the earth.
In
> 1998
> > the final report of the science advisors to the Minnesota Public
Utilites
> > Commission found the same.
> > In Wisconsin and other states the PSCs have given the utilites
> > permission to ground the distribution pole neutrals, which are supposed
to
> return the
> > current to the substations, onto the ground, from where it returns to
the
> > substations.
> > Since the above statements were made, the % of high frequency in
our
> > loads has increased, so the % of current returning to the substations
via
> the
> > earth has also increased since these findings were made public.
> >
> > Drasko wrote:
> > Similarly, the issue with kHz pollution from home wiring also seems to
be
> > generally exaggerated in the texts that mains filter manufacturers
> present,
> > as I had already commented to you before. Something in kHz range does
come
> > out of wires but not nearly as they present.
> >
> > Shivani replies:
> > Well, here you need to name the manufacturers you are talking
about.
> > The information on Stetzer's site is accurate. Others I am not
familiar
> > with.
> > I commonly find levels of 200 or 300 GS units in homes. Even up
to
> > 1800! 20 is the "synptom-free" level.
> > Of course, what will matter for each individual or family is
exactly
> > what their own exposure is. Only one way to know. Test.
> >
> > Drasko wrote:
> > Anyway, I don't deny that the ground currents and "electropollution"
(the
> > way you define it) could have been a source of some trouble, but they
give
> > much smaller readings at the objective meters than you would have
imagined