I can't resist sharing Willie's disgust against the explanations like those about Pulsors.
I have wrote about it in my previous postings. But I also do share Marc's and Charles' standpoints, as I know that some of the magic devices do make a difference (I am offering a bet that I am able to distingish their presence). Still, that doesn't mean that all those theoretical descriptions have anything to do with the reality. Unfortunatelly not many people care about distinguishing facts from hypothesis. Let me tell you the essence of my explorations in the field of any alternative "science": a) There is a lot of truth in it. b) There is a lot of crap in it. c) The main and the only problem is how to distinguish those two within any particular "theory". I hope this list would help us regarding c), as the (most) scientists won't be of much help, be they alternative or classic ones. They prefer theory to facts. Drasko [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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> But I also do share Marc's and Charles' standpoints, as I know that some
> of the magic devices do make a difference (I am offering a bet that I am > able to distingish their presence). Still, that doesn't mean that all > those theoretical descriptions have anything to do with the reality. Unfortunately, these theoretical descriptions don't give any concrete examples of their effectiveness. For example, there are many products out there which claim to trasmute positive ions to negative ions, or change the rotation direction of electrons, or increase the "coherence" or "chi" in the environment, and from their descriptions they all sound like they might have about the same effectiveness. However, when one purchases these products and tries them out in the real world, one finds that there is a huge range of effectiveness in these similarly-described products. One product may not be able to come even close to neutralizing a CRT computer monitor (e.g, a Teslar watch, a purple plate, a Q-Link pendant), while others can do it with extra energy to spare (e.g, Springlife Polarizer, Earthcalm pendant). All I really care about is if the product works -- if it can allow me to be healthy in an environment surrounded by computers, fluorescent lights, cell phones, etc. The theory of how it works isn't particularly important to me. Especially when the theory doesn't make much sense! :-) Marc |
That is exactly my viewpoint.
For a lot of things, there even does not exist a theory. Charles ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Martin" <[hidden email]> To: <[hidden email]> Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2004 19:49 Subject: Re: [eSens] magic devices > All I really care about is if the product works -- if it can allow > me to be healthy in an environment surrounded by computers, fluorescent > lights, cell phones, etc. The theory of how it works isn't particularly > important to me. Especially when the theory doesn't make much sense! > :-) > > Marc |
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> That is exactly my viewpoint.
> For a lot of things, there even does not exist a theory. What I find unfortunate is that there are obviously many people out there who *need* to have a theory before they are willing to try a product, and that theory *must* be believable to them. This is too bad, because they may continue to stay disabled because of this requirement for a believable theory. I know that the products I'm currently using -- the Springlife Polarizers -- have theories about how they work printed on the Internet that I don't believe at all. But I tried the product anyway, and it worked better than products that had more credible theories. Marc |
The effect from those magic devices is probably due to placebo effect,
nothing else! Try positive thinking, it often works, and it is cheap. What it's all about is $$$$$, P L E N T Y OF THEM! Vitamins and minerals DO HAVE EFFECT! Avoiding exposure from EMF DO HAVE EFFECT! Shielding in appropriate way MIGHT WORK! Shielding 50/60Hz is possible using thick aluminium plate, at least 5 mm. The shielding effect improves with increasing frequency and increasing thickness. The cellular phone industries applaud a list like this, plenty of the participants individuals can be rejected as more or less insane! YES, I know that plenty of You (and myself, since 1989) who suffers from ES (and mercury poisoning) will be upset, but realize that if the society in the future shall be able to take US seriously, then we have to act in that direction! And, Y E S, I do rails that plenty of You sees me as a pain in the ... Anders Eriksson Marc Martin wrote: >>That is exactly my viewpoint. >>For a lot of things, there even does not exist a theory. > > > What I find unfortunate is that there are obviously many > people out there who *need* to have a theory before they > are willing to try a product, and that theory *must* be > believable to them. This is too bad, because they may > continue to stay disabled because of this requirement for > a believable theory. > > I know that the products I'm currently using -- the > Springlife Polarizers -- have theories about how they > work printed on the Internet that I don't believe > at all. But I tried the product anyway, and it worked > better than products that had more credible theories. > > Marc > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > |
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> The effect from those magic devices is probably due to placebo effect,
> nothing else! Try positive thinking, it often works, and it is cheap. I agree that positive thinking is helpful. I also know that the placebo effect is NOT a factor, because I have observered repeatable reactions to these devices from my wife, my cats, and others when they have no idea that I have put a device into their environment. > Vitamins and minerals DO HAVE EFFECT! Yes, but with vitamins and minerals, you have to keep buying them each month. Over time, this can add up to a lot of money. With a device, you can get results without having to continually buy more each month. > Avoiding exposure from EMF DO HAVE EFFECT! Not practical if you have a job in a building full of fluorescent lights and computers. Heck, it's not even practical if you want to go to the grocery store! > Shielding in appropriate way MIGHT WORK! Again, this may be practical in your bedroom, but certainly not in a typical office building. > The cellular phone industries applaud a list like this, plenty of the > participants individuals can be rejected as more or less insane! They think we're crazy already, so what's the difference? :-) I EXPECT them to be hostile towards us, but I don't expect other ES suffers to be. > YES, I know that plenty of You (and myself, since 1989) who suffers from > ES (and mercury poisoning) will be upset, but realize that if the > society in the future shall be able to take US seriously, then we have > to act in that direction! I'm not upset with you... I understand where you're coming from. But I also know from my own past experiences that what you are suggesting does not work. And what I am suggesting does. I know this, because I've tried both. It sounds like you have not. Perhaps you should try something before condemning it? Marc |
In reply to this post by Drasko Cvijovic
Hi Everyone
I think that debate is very healthy for all of us in this group to experience, as this can be where breakthroughs in knowledge occur. I am concerned however, that antagonism might also occur, and I don't think this is constructive. This list is very important to me and many others and I am concerned that antagonism will stop even one of you people from sharing your valuable views, which could make the difference between good health and bad health for one person or many. We are all very passionate about this subject because it influences our lives directly so I hope that we can channel this passion towards solving our problems rather than arguing over opinions or positions. There are many preparations and devices that claim to have positive health benefits, with regard to electromagnetic effects. Like others, my scientifically trained mind will not accept that certain devices work, however this resistance could actually influence the effectiveness of such devices or preparations. It is very hard to have a completely open mind and positive thinking requires a lot of energy to begin, particularly if one is already depressed (either physically or mentally), which appears to be one of the many symptoms of EHS. I imagine that there are also many of us who can't afford to buy even one device or bottle of pills, no matter how legitimate or otherwise, so this could also be something to keep in mind. Cheap and effective solutions to problems are sure to be out there and require a bit of lateral thinking (something that I am sure the HUGE set of brains we have available to us in this group is capable of). I think we must all also accept that very few of us (myself included) have the resources to carry out a pure scientific experiment, eliminating the infinite number of external factors that could exert an influence. Therefore, there is a distinct possibility that the results of experiments we carry out on ourselves are possibly related to other factors (either internal or external). I agree with many of you that if something works for you, then that is a good thing. I also believe that we can all learn something from a recent discovery by Wolfgang Loescher (Hanover Medical School, Germany), that the difference in observed results of seemingly identical experiments performed by himself and Larry Anderson at Batelle Labs in Richmond WA (USA), were apparently due to a slight genetic difference between different strains of the same species of rat, on which experiments were performed (see this weblink for a little more information - http://www.microwavenews.com/viewsonnews.html). Furthermore, there is also a possibility that there are differences between the health effects of 50Hz and 60Hz EM fields and radiation, and some of us are exposed to one whilst others are exposed to the other, expecting the same devices and preparations to protect us identically from either. This is an almost infinitely complicated area to understand and we are all at the start of a very long road towards understanding how it affects our lives. I look forward to learning more from you all. Best regards and my apologies if this feels like a lecture (my passion for this subject gets the better of me too) Lachlan -----Original Message----- From: Marc Martin [mailto:[hidden email]] Sent: Thursday, 12 February 2004 7:18 AM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [eSens] magic devices > The effect from those magic devices is probably due to placebo effect, > nothing else! Try positive thinking, it often works, and it is cheap. I agree that positive thinking is helpful. I also know that the placebo effect is NOT a factor, because I have observered repeatable reactions to these devices from my wife, my cats, and others when they have no idea that I have put a device into their environment. > Vitamins and minerals DO HAVE EFFECT! Yes, but with vitamins and minerals, you have to keep buying them each month. Over time, this can add up to a lot of money. With a device, you can get results without having to continually buy more each month. > Avoiding exposure from EMF DO HAVE EFFECT! Not practical if you have a job in a building full of fluorescent lights and computers. Heck, it's not even practical if you want to go to the grocery store! > Shielding in appropriate way MIGHT WORK! Again, this may be practical in your bedroom, but certainly not in a typical office building. > The cellular phone industries applaud a list like this, plenty of the > participants individuals can be rejected as more or less insane! They think we're crazy already, so what's the difference? :-) I EXPECT them to be hostile towards us, but I don't expect other ES suffers to be. > YES, I know that plenty of You (and myself, since 1989) who suffers from > ES (and mercury poisoning) will be upset, but realize that if the > society in the future shall be able to take US seriously, then we have > to act in that direction! I'm not upset with you... I understand where you're coming from. But I also know from my own past experiences that what you are suggesting does not work. And what I am suggesting does. I know this, because I've tried both. It sounds like you have not. Perhaps you should try something before condemning it? Marc Yahoo! Groups Links |
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In reply to this post by Drasko Cvijovic
>Like others, my scientifically trained mind will not accept that certain
>devices work, however this resistance could actually influence the >effectiveness of such devices or preparations. I really doubt than anyone's skepticism would prevent them from noticing the effects of the more powerful devices. I've got a few things that I would think that any ES person would notice almost immediately. With some of these devices, the effect is NOT subtle. And for some of the stronger ones, I've lent them to non-ES folks, and they also noticed something right away. I suppose we could put this to a test -- I've got a whole box full of discarded devices.... I could mail you one of the stronger ones, and you could determine for yourself if your resistance is strong enough... :-) Marc |
In reply to this post by Lachlan Mudge
I agree with you, Lachlan Mudge, I too, joined this group because I wanted to find others that are suffering with these symptoms...i.e. fatigue, dizziness, depression, headache, burning feet, and sleeping disorders. I know most of the symptoms I have are also associated with MS, which I found out I have, two years ago, but these symptoms did not flare up until I started working in a building that has a cell phone tower on top of it, the 4 stories above us has computers for the telephone company and I now work 8-9 hrs a day in front of a computer. The building has been tested and there are high levels of EMR. I didn't join this group to be told that I think I am the center of the universe or that what I am experiencing is all in my head. My advise is, don't judge others until you walked in their shoes.
Lachlan Mudge <[hidden email]> wrote: Hi Everyone I think that debate is very healthy for all of us in this group to experience, as this can be where breakthroughs in knowledge occur. I am concerned however, that antagonism might also occur, and I don't think this is constructive. This list is very important to me and many others and I am concerned that antagonism will stop even one of you people from sharing your valuable views, which could make the difference between good health and bad health for one person or many. We are all very passionate about this subject because it influences our lives directly so I hope that we can channel this passion towards solving our problems rather than arguing over opinions or positions. There are many preparations and devices that claim to have positive health benefits, with regard to electromagnetic effects. Like others, my scientifically trained mind will not accept that certain devices work, however this resistance could actually influence the effectiveness of such devices or preparations. It is very hard to have a completely open mind and positive thinking requires a lot of energy to begin, particularly if one is already depressed (either physically or mentally), which appears to be one of the many symptoms of EHS. I imagine that there are also many of us who can't afford to buy even one device or bottle of pills, no matter how legitimate or otherwise, so this could also be something to keep in mind. Cheap and effective solutions to problems are sure to be out there and require a bit of lateral thinking (something that I am sure the HUGE set of brains we have available to us in this group is capable of). I think we must all also accept that very few of us (myself included) have the resources to carry out a pure scientific experiment, eliminating the infinite number of external factors that could exert an influence. Therefore, there is a distinct possibility that the results of experiments we carry out on ourselves are possibly related to other factors (either internal or external). I agree with many of you that if something works for you, then that is a good thing. I also believe that we can all learn something from a recent discovery by Wolfgang Loescher (Hanover Medical School, Germany), that the difference in observed results of seemingly identical experiments performed by himself and Larry Anderson at Batelle Labs in Richmond WA (USA), were apparently due to a slight genetic difference between different strains of the same species of rat, on which experiments were performed (see this weblink for a little more information - http://www.microwavenews.com/viewsonnews.html). Furthermore, there is also a possibility that there are differences between the health effects of 50Hz and 60Hz EM fields and radiation, and some of us are exposed to one whilst others are exposed to the other, expecting the same devices and preparations to protect us identically from either. This is an almost infinitely complicated area to understand and we are all at the start of a very long road towards understanding how it affects our lives. I look forward to learning more from you all. Best regards and my apologies if this feels like a lecture (my passion for this subject gets the better of me too) Lachlan -----Original Message----- From: Marc Martin [mailto:[hidden email]] Sent: Thursday, 12 February 2004 7:18 AM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [eSens] magic devices > The effect from those magic devices is probably due to placebo effect, > nothing else! Try positive thinking, it often works, and it is cheap. I agree that positive thinking is helpful. I also know that the placebo effect is NOT a factor, because I have observered repeatable reactions to these devices from my wife, my cats, and others when they have no idea that I have put a device into their environment. > Vitamins and minerals DO HAVE EFFECT! Yes, but with vitamins and minerals, you have to keep buying them each month. Over time, this can add up to a lot of money. With a device, you can get results without having to continually buy more each month. > Avoiding exposure from EMF DO HAVE EFFECT! Not practical if you have a job in a building full of fluorescent lights and computers. Heck, it's not even practical if you want to go to the grocery store! > Shielding in appropriate way MIGHT WORK! Again, this may be practical in your bedroom, but certainly not in a typical office building. > The cellular phone industries applaud a list like this, plenty of the > participants individuals can be rejected as more or less insane! They think we're crazy already, so what's the difference? :-) I EXPECT them to be hostile towards us, but I don't expect other ES suffers to be. > YES, I know that plenty of You (and myself, since 1989) who suffers from > ES (and mercury poisoning) will be upset, but realize that if the > society in the future shall be able to take US seriously, then we have > to act in that direction! I'm not upset with you... I understand where you're coming from. But I also know from my own past experiences that what you are suggesting does not work. And what I am suggesting does. I know this, because I've tried both. It sounds like you have not. Perhaps you should try something before condemning it? Marc Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Julie Hartinger Marketing Executive 262-534-9080 CONCERNED ABOUT YOUR FAMILY'S HEALTH AND TOXINS IN YOUR HOME? GO TO: http://success4u.worldwidefamilies.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
In reply to this post by Drasko Cvijovic
In a message dated 2/11/2004 11:14:12 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[hidden email] writes: I suppose we could put this to a test -- I've got a whole box full of discarded devices.... I could mail you one of the stronger ones, and you could determine for yourself if your resistance is strong enough... :-) Marc Yes Marc, Maybe the ES group could look into an exchange program for the different devices. It seems there many stories of people trying stuff that does not work for them yet other get good benefit from the same device. The exchange program would be set up as a listing of items that you want to exchange for another. In this way it would provide a way for all to try different things to find one that does them the most good. And do it very economically. Bill W [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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> Yes Marc, Maybe the ES group could look into an exchange program for
> the different devices. In this way it would provide a way for all to > try different things to find one that does them the most good. And do > it very economically. Yes, good idea! Especially for those people who have already spent money on devices which did not work for them, this could allow them an opportunity to trade for another one which might. But I wonder what one can put on the postal customs form? Will they even know what an "EMF Protection Device" is??? Marc |
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