longitudinal waves

Dear Drasco,
for me longitudinal waves are not a theory and not a weird theory, they are
also not fiction, they are experimental fact. Using elektroacupunkture I
clearly could see the biological negative effect that electromagnetic fields
produce. Then I tried to make this negative effect disappear. The things I found,
that were alreday on the market, dit not fit into the understanding of physics I
had at that time. But I did continue making various experiments to find out
how these things might work. Through experimentation alone I found some of the
qualities, that those biological effective waves had. One was, that these
waves penetrate any Faradayan cage, but change their quality by passing the
metallic wall. It was only then, that I was reading about Tesla, Prof. Meyl from
Germany and others, that described these waves as longitudinal waves. And the
experiences I had made, fit very well in the description of longitudinal waves
they gave.
Measuring longitudinal waves technically certainly would be a good thing, but
this mesurement cannot tell me wether these waves are biological negative or
positive. This depends on the information they transmit. And information you
can not directly measure, because it is a quality and not a quantitiy. This
explains why even extremly low intensities of EMF can cause biological effects.
This explains, why pulsed mikrowaves cause a much stronger biological effect
than continuous waves.
Hopefully these very few details can awaken you to the realitiy of the Tesla
waves and make you curious, to find out more about them. It`s worth it.
Greetings
Dietrich Gruen


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear Dietrich and Charles and Lachlan,

Thank you for your response to my inquiry about longitudinal waves. I am
extremely ready to believe that they exist, just someone tell me what they
are, what are their properties, how to imagine them, what difference their
existance make in our picture and understanding of the EMF effects! All the
information I have read up to now is *irrelevant* for practical purposes,
including the text of Dr. Smith that Beau posted. Please help me a bit more,
cite something or send a text or something like that.

Drasko

----- Original Message -----
From: <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 4:26 PM
Subject: [eSens] longitudinal waves


> Dear Drasco,
> for me longitudinal waves are not a theory and not a weird theory, they
are
> also not fiction, they are experimental fact. Using elektroacupunkture I
> clearly could see the biological negative effect that electromagnetic
fields
> produce. Then I tried to make this negative effect disappear. The things I
found,
> that were alreday on the market, dit not fit into the understanding of
physics I
> had at that time. But I did continue making various experiments to find
out
> how these things might work. Through experimentation alone I found some
of the
> qualities, that those biological effective waves had. One was, that these
> waves penetrate any Faradayan cage, but change their quality by passing
the
> metallic wall. It was only then, that I was reading about Tesla, Prof.
Meyl from
> Germany and others, that described these waves as longitudinal waves. And
the
> experiences I had made, fit very well in the description of longitudinal
waves
> they gave.
> Measuring longitudinal waves technically certainly would be a good thing,
but
> this mesurement cannot tell me wether these waves are biological negative
or
> positive. This depends on the information they transmit. And information
you
> can not directly measure, because it is a quality and not a quantitiy.
This
> explains why even extremly low intensities of EMF can cause biological
effects.
> This explains, why pulsed mikrowaves cause a much stronger biological
effect
> than continuous waves.
> Hopefully these very few details can awaken you to the realitiy of the
Tesla

Dear Drasko,

I'm also still undecided regarding the actual, physical existence of
longitudinal waves and magnetic vector potentials. As with any
quantity which is postulated, I take the 'wait and see' approach.
This applies to all of physics. If an explanation can fit enough
observable facts, it is reasonable to use it as a model for the
observed behavior, especially if something engineered using the model
works. However, some would maintain that after something has been
engineered and has an effect predicted on a model's principles, they
now have explained the actual mechanisms which cause the observed
facts. That notion should be dispelled by a brief glimpse into
history which shows that our 'concrete' physical models are always
being altered or replaced. Even an observable like a gaussmeter
reading only shows that something is happening to bring it about; we
speak of a 'magnetic field' (and the mathematical description of such)
as explaining the behavior. Some believe the present standard physics
description of the magnetic field is all there is to the phenomenon,
as it suits their purposes and there is nothing in their admissible
experience which needs further explanation. This is partly the kind
of thinking which has led to the discounting or denial of ES.

And what constitutes a valid or applicable measure? Our meter may be
responding to something whose nature is only narrowly explained or
completely missed by standard physics. And how do we know the scope
the measurements taken by something like an electroacupuncture device
really apply to? The level of concern for a measurement's validity is
always relative, depending on what is motivating the measurement, and
the scope can only be assessed experimentally. I'm inclined that
there are many investigators, like Dr. Smith, who have spent a great
deal of effort gathering observables and finding that some extended
version of electromagnetics suggests the observed phenomena. I don't
have the benefit of having done these experiments and collected
convincing bodies of data, or had the opportunity to critically review
them; hence my undecided status about these things. However, Dr.
Smith's and my own immediate experience with electrically driven
toroids at a distance have shown me that biological organisms can feel
and react to something either too fine for, or completely outside of
the capability of gaussmeters to read. To my knowledge, Dr. Smith
only postulates that the reaction may be due to a physical quantity
which corresponds to the mathematically modelled magnetic vector
potential. Here's an explanation of the magnetic vector potential's
derivation: http://tinyurl.com/6kugw

I've posted the files on Dr. Smith's work to show there are bodies of
thought extant into less-than-mainstream explanations of
electromagnetic phenomena with serious, well-intentioned scholarship
on them. My intention isn't to convince anyone of the existence of
longitudinal waves or magnetic vector potentials with Dr. Smith's
bibliography or the brief intro to his ideas given in his article on
mobile phones. As a good deal of Dr. Smith's work pertains to ES, I
am hopeful he or other researchers can discover a model which explains
and can treat it successfully. I am sharing the information in hopes
it gives hope to others and can lead other scholars who encounter the
literature in possibly finding a cure.

All the best,
Beau

--- In [hidden email], "Drasko Cvijovic" <pecina@c...> wrote:
>
> Dear Dietrich and Charles and Lachlan,
>
> Thank you for your response to my inquiry about longitudinal waves.
I am
> extremely ready to believe that they exist, just someone tell me
what they
> are, what are their properties, how to imagine them, what difference
their
> existance make in our picture and understanding of the EMF effects!
All the
> information I have read up to now is *irrelevant* for practical
purposes,
> including the text of Dr. Smith that Beau posted. Please help me a
bit more, they
> are
> > also not fiction, they are experimental fact. Using
elektroacupunkture I
> > clearly could see the biological negative effect that
electromagnetic
> fields
> > produce. Then I tried to make this negative effect disappear. The
things I
> found,
> > that were alreday on the market, dit not fit into the
understanding of
> physics I
> > had at that time. But I did continue making various experiments to
find
> out
> > how these things might work. Through experimentation alone I
found some
> of the
> > qualities, that those biological effective waves had. One was,
that these
> > waves penetrate any Faradayan cage, but change their quality by
passing
> the
> > metallic wall. It was only then, that I was reading about Tesla,
Prof.
> Meyl from
> > Germany and others, that described these waves as longitudinal
waves. And
> the
> > experiences I had made, fit very well in the description of
longitudinal
> waves
> > they gave.
> > Measuring longitudinal waves technically certainly would be a good
thing,
> but
> > this mesurement cannot tell me wether these waves are biological
negative
> or
> > positive. This depends on the information they transmit. And
information
> you
> > can not directly measure, because it is a quality and not a
quantitiy.
> This
> > explains why even extremly low intensities of EMF can cause
biological
> effects.
> > This explains, why pulsed mikrowaves cause a much stronger
biological
> effect
> > than continuous waves.
> > Hopefully these very few details can awaken you to the realitiy
of the
> Tesla
> > waves and make you curious, to find out more about them. It`s
worth it.

Beau,
Thank you very much for your dedicated response! I completely agree with
your philosophy of science!

There is just a slight accent that could be differing us: It is my constant
struggle to separate fact from fiction. As we agree, any (especially newly
postulated) theoretical model has a mixture of fact and presumptions. It is
very difficult to separate them, once they are mixed within a theory. So
first I look for the facts that are crucial and typical for a specific
theory.
A perfect example of such a fact is the experiment with coils that you
mentioned. As I understand, there is an "emanation" (call it longitudinal
waves, vector potential, or whatever) from such coils, that does have
biological effect while not having classic physical parameters! Excellent!
That is what I have been seeking for! Where to find more such facts (texts
of Dr. Smith or whatever)?!

You did help me to start rationalizing this theory! Thank you! Let's go
further!

Drasko