chinese medicine for ES in Seattle

> To: [hidden email]
> From: [hidden email]
> Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2012 10:28:59 -0700
> Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Safety of Chinese Herbs & Medicines?
>
> Thanks for bringing this up!  I like a chance to fight back against this
> particular sort of criticism...
>
> Any TCM practitioner will know how to use things containing aristolochic
> acid and ephedra.  These are ridiculously useful herbs, but in high doses,
> used incorrectly, can cause problems - hence practitioners go to school and
> learn to prescribe them correctly.  This is the wrong kind of paranoia
> around chinese herbs, as far as I'm concerned.  The animal products,
> though, are problematic - a lot of endangered species have bones, teeth,
> horns, etc that are used as herbs.  They tend to not usually be what they
> say they are, just due to cost.  Those probably won't do much; and the real
> things obviously shouldn't be sold because the animals are endangered.  My
> overall point, though, is that I'd definitely be more worried about metals
> and pesticide residues than ephedra.  Ephedra is an herb that, in the US,
> we can't get anymore as practitioners and that has really hindered our
> ability to practice herbs, as it is the only thing that has its function,
> and it's super effective at what it does.  To me, what this article
> usefully points out is what I said in a previous post - get herbs from good
> companies that test their products.  And get herbs prescribed - don't take
> something because you googled it and think it will help.  You may even find
> something that's useful, but if you take too much, it can be dangerous.
> Good herbalists are trained for mitigating toxicity with other herbs, too.
>
> Above and beyond all this is the fact that such studies don't compare herbs
> to pharmaceuticals, which are more dangerous and toxic.  Remember how
> Paracelsus said that the dose makes the poison?  That applies well to
> herbal medicine, natural substances.  Of course, we know it doesn't really
> apply well to man-made substances or inventions...
>
> Those are my thoughts on this.  Sorry if I'm ranting - I really do care
> about herb safety, so it irritates me that what gets publicized seems to
> really miss the mark.
>
> -Amanda
>
> On Sun, Apr 22, 2012 at 1:00 AM, C.a.b. Johnson <[hidden email]>wrote:
>
> > **
> >
> >
> > Amanda,
> >
> > Since you are on the subject of Chinese herb safety, here is an article
> > that came out last week concerning the safety of some Traditional Chinese
> > Medicines:
> >
> >
> > http://m.yahoo.com/w/news_america/dna-tests-uncover-hazards-chinese-therapies-211109236.html?back=%2Fhealth%2F&.ts=1334297414&.intl=us&.lang=en
> >
> > DNA tests uncover hazards in Chinese therapies
> > AFP - Thu, Apr 12, 2012
> >
> > <snippets>
> > A host of potential toxins, allergens and traces of endangered animals
> > showed up in DNA sequencing tests on 15 Chinese traditional medicines,
> > researchers said on Thursday.
> >
> > The samples analyzed for this study included herbal teas, capsules,
> > powders and flakes that were seized by Australian border officials and were
> > subsequently tested by scientists at Australia's Murdoch University.
> >
> > Plant agents suspected of causing urinary tract and kidney cancer such as
> > Aristolochic acid, as well as the potentially poisonous herb ephedra were
> > among the dangerous elements found.
> >
> > Some of the 68 different plant families that were detected in the 15
> > samples can be toxic if taken in the wrong doses, but the packaging did not
> > list the concentrations of the elements inside, he said.
> >
> > "We also found traces from trade restricted animals that are classified as
> > vulnerable, endangered, or critically endangered, including the Asiatic
> > black bear and Saiga antelope" he said, adding that some contained
> > ingredients that were not included on the label.
> >
> > "A product labeled as 100 percent Saiga antelope contained considerable
> > quantities of goat and sheep DNA," he said.
> >
> > "Another product, Mongnan Tianbao pills, contained deer and cow DNA, the
> > latter of which may violate some religious or cultural strictures."
> >
> >
> >
> > --- On Sat, 4/21/12, Amanda Kolter <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > The only general caution I have with ES patients, when it comes to herbs,
> > is to be careful about the source of your herbs.  Many are from China and
> > are not tested for heavy metals, which are all over China.  KPC is a good
> > brand; Golden Flower is as well; and there are many such brands that
> > undergo extensive metal and pesticide testing, but just buying whatever is
> > in Chinatown is not necessarily a good idea.
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >  
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

> **
>
>
> Totally enjoying this discussion of EHS with the Asian Medicine view!
>
> Just in case you haven't seen this: "The Pulse, the Electronic Age and
> Radiation: Early Detection" By Leon Hammer, MD and Ross Rosen LAc is at
> http://dragonrises.org/articles/pulseelectronicageradiation.pdf
>
>  
>

>Thanks for bringing this up!  I like a chance to fight back against this
>particular sort of criticism...
>
>Any TCM practitioner will know how to use things containing aristolochic
>acid and ephedra.  These are ridiculously useful herbs, but in high doses,
>used incorrectly, can cause problems - hence practitioners go to school and
>learn to prescribe them correctly.  This is the wrong kind of paranoia
>around chinese herbs, as far as I'm concerned.  The animal products,
>though, are problematic - a lot of endangered species have bones, teeth,
>horns, etc that are used as herbs.  They tend to not usually be what they
>say they are, just due to cost.  Those probably won't do much; and the real
>things obviously shouldn't be sold because the animals are endangered.  My
>overall point, though, is that I'd definitely be more worried about metals
>and pesticide residues than ephedra.  Ephedra is an herb that, in the US,
>we can't get anymore as practitioners and that has really hindered our
>ability to practice herbs, as it is the only thing that has its function,
>and it's super effective at what it does.  To me, what this article
>usefully points out is what I said in a previous post - get herbs from good
>companies that test their products.  And get herbs prescribed - don't take
>something because you googled it and think it will help.  You may even find
>something that's useful, but if you take too much, it can be dangerous.
>Good herbalists are trained for mitigating toxicity with other herbs, too.
>
>Above and beyond all this is the fact that such studies don't compare herbs
>to pharmaceuticals, which are more dangerous and toxic.  Remember how
>Paracelsus said that the dose makes the poison?  That applies well to
>herbal medicine, natural substances.  Of course, we know it doesn't really
>apply well to man-made substances or inventions...
>
>Those are my thoughts on this.  Sorry if I'm ranting - I really do care
>about herb safety, so it irritates me that what gets publicized seems to
>really miss the mark.
>
>-Amanda
>
>On Sun, Apr 22, 2012 at 1:00 AM, C.a.b. Johnson <[hidden email]>wrote:
>
>> **
>>
>>
>> Amanda,
>>
>> Since you are on the subject of Chinese herb safety, here is an article
>> that came out last week concerning the safety of some Traditional Chinese
>> Medicines:
>>
>>
>> http://m.yahoo.com/w/news_america/dna-tests-uncover-hazards-chinese-therapies-211109236.html?back=%2Fhealth%2F&.ts=1334297414&.intl=us&.lang=en
>>
>> DNA tests uncover hazards in Chinese therapies
>> AFP - Thu, Apr 12, 2012
>>
>> <snippets>
>> A host of potential toxins, allergens and traces of endangered animals
>> showed up in DNA sequencing tests on 15 Chinese traditional medicines,
>> researchers said on Thursday.
>>
>> The samples analyzed for this study included herbal teas, capsules,
>> powders and flakes that were seized by Australian border officials and were
>> subsequently tested by scientists at Australia's Murdoch University.
>>
>> Plant agents suspected of causing urinary tract and kidney cancer such as
>> Aristolochic acid, as well as the potentially poisonous herb ephedra were
>> among the dangerous elements found.
>>
>> Some of the 68 different plant families that were detected in the 15
>> samples can be toxic if taken in the wrong doses, but the packaging did not
>> list the concentrations of the elements inside, he said.
>>
>> "We also found traces from trade restricted animals that are classified as
>> vulnerable, endangered, or critically endangered, including the Asiatic
>> black bear and Saiga antelope" he said, adding that some contained
>> ingredients that were not included on the label.
>>
>> "A product labeled as 100 percent Saiga antelope contained considerable
>> quantities of goat and sheep DNA," he said.
>>
>> "Another product, Mongnan Tianbao pills, contained deer and cow DNA, the
>> latter of which may violate some religious or cultural strictures."