another reply re. Drasko re.Stetzer....

I have not kept files of people's remarks, so I cannot provide quotes,
Drasko. However, you have repeatedly made remarks indicating that you doubt
the veracity of those reporting that the American utilities use the ground to
return about 70% of their current to the substations. If you have taken
readings that would indicate this is not so, please share them. Dave Stetzer
has done this research, has taken these readings. He has been active
regarding this issue for years. Professor Art Hughes and Professor Martin Graham
have taken these readings. Professor Dahlberg, whose paper was sent out to the
list here recently has also taken these readings. (Do you find any fault in
his article?) The policy and research arm of the American utilities (EPRI)
has done the research and publically admitted this is the case. So has the
Minnesota Science Advisory Board.
Dave Stetzer was kind enough to put you in touch with Prof. Huges
regarding this issue. That is not passing you off to his assistant, or whatever
your exact words were. And the reason Prof. Hughes did not continue to
communicate with you was, according to him, that you were acting as if you thought
he was your secretary. Both Stetzer and Hughes regularly spend seven days
a week from 12 to about 15 hrs. a day, working to find more solutions to
save the lives and health of people suffering from electrical pollution. Dave
has actually been hospitalized twice when he collapsed from exhaustion due to
not sleeping because he was working on an important project. These are
simply not guys who are going to spend a lot of time chatting with you and doing
your homework for you, Drasko.
I have the highest regard for all the above-mentioned researchers, and
am not very tolerant of people who criticize them and their impeccable work.
I am just one of many people who would not be alive today without their work.
These guys are the best friends any ES person has.
Regards,
Shivani



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Shivani,
Now it's time to stop this.

1. The most relevant is:
Stetzer filters (and meters!!!) deal with currents within the wires. Their
impact to overall pollution in the room is very small as the dirty
electricity emanations from the wires are low in comparation with the fields
from mobile phone towers, radio stations, Dect phones, computers etc.
It is like being concerned with mosquitoes in presence of a tiger. If, by
any chance, the mosquitoes were poisoning mutants, while tiger had no teeth,
killing the mosquitoes could have made sense. But it would have been a very
strange occurance anyway, and would have reqiured special explanation on the
hidden nature of the event - to anybody attempting to understand the
scene... Similarly applies to Stetzer filters - what I am concerned with is
that nobody even tries to explain why killing mosquitoes (small fields
coming out of wires) is esential!!

2. Previous (and not the "70% issue"!) is what I addressed with Mr. Stetzer
and his colleague... The most strange was that they showed no much
understanding for that very simple question, so that I had to keep replying
and sharpening the conversation what after several my attempts really did
turn into a kind of interrogation. But what could have I done if one was not
responding (directly) to what I was asking?!

3. Although I am ready to believe those filters saved yours and many other
lives, it becomes obvious that almost all your postings, whatever the
subject is, include a sentence or two which could be considered as a support
to Stetzer marketing. You missed to tell us would there be any your material
interest with Stetzer's.

4. Similarly to Low's presence on the list, I wouldn't have cared for some
marketing as far as based on (at least apparent) facts. But you disseminate
unfounded statements (not me!). Such statement is the one about 70% current
being returned through ground. I don't have opposed readings as I am not in
the US, I just, knowing it is not probable, what you to back up *your*
statements... I even never found anybody from Stetzer's stating such thing,
so I would appreciate if you could collect such their statement (exact
citations please!!) - you can ask Dave to email us a short report on the
issue or something...

5. Regarding quotes, would you be so kind to try to find my unfounded
statements, please go to Esens site and by searching for Drasko Cvijovic
extract all my messages. Otherwise please appologize or at least stop
blaming me for something you are not sure to have understood.

Drasko

----- Original Message -----
From: <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2005 2:05 AM
Subject: [eSens] another reply re. Drasko re.Stetzer....


> I have not kept files of people's remarks, so I cannot provide
quotes,
> Drasko. However, you have repeatedly made remarks indicating that you
doubt
> the veracity of those reporting that the American utilities use the ground
to
> return about 70% of their current to the substations. If you have taken
> readings that would indicate this is not so, please share them. Dave
Stetzer
> has done this research, has taken these readings. He has been active
> regarding this issue for years. Professor Art Hughes and Professor
Martin Graham
> have taken these readings. Professor Dahlberg, whose paper was sent out
to the
> list here recently has also taken these readings. (Do you find any fault
in
> his article?) The policy and research arm of the American utilities
(EPRI)
> has done the research and publically admitted this is the case. So has
the
> Minnesota Science Advisory Board.
> Dave Stetzer was kind enough to put you in touch with Prof. Huges
> regarding this issue. That is not passing you off to his assistant, or
whatever
> your exact words were. And the reason Prof. Hughes did not continue to
> communicate with you was, according to him, that you were acting as if you
thought
> he was your secretary. Both Stetzer and Hughes regularly spend seven
days
> a week from 12 to about 15 hrs. a day, working to find more solutions
to
> save the lives and health of people suffering from electrical pollution.
Dave
> has actually been hospitalized twice when he collapsed from exhaustion due
to
> not sleeping because he was working on an important project. These are
> simply not guys who are going to spend a lot of time chatting with you and
doing
> your homework for you, Drasko.
> I have the highest regard for all the above-mentioned researchers,
and
> am not very tolerant of people who criticize them and their impeccable
work.
> I am just one of many people who would not be alive today without their
work.

Hello Drasko,

I do have an opinion also.

I do not agree with you about point 1.
I have found, that the currents in the wires are also in the air.
With my VLF Detector, which has a retractable antenna, measures the same
peaks, when the Stetzeriser meter shows those peaks.
That is with a fraction delay in time.
I had a cabine of the cable television on the street, which gave pulses on
my mains, which I couls detect in the house.
After some disputing, the cable company removed a switching power supply
with one that works regularly, and those signals are gone.
In the air, as well as in the wires.

Regarding mosquitos.
I have a telephone wth wire, where I found 30 kHz disturbing signals, only
to be found when I placed the contact probe on the display of this
telephone. My wife felt those signals 2 meters away!!!
After exchanging with another wired telephone, the signals were not to be
found, and my wife had no troubles.

The same disturbing telephone I have installed now here in Belgium, but
there are no signals.
So the signals must be coming from the line of the dutch telephone company
in Holland.
You know, in the netherlands, the most telephone taps are placed there, more
than in the whole USA!

On the other hand, I found that after the Stetzer filter, the meter reads
less GS units, but on the line, the amount remains the same.
And the filters do not have an grounding pin, which I find very essential
for an electric mains.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes.nl
www.milieuziektes.be
www.hetbitje.nl
checked by Norton Antivirus





----- Original Message -----
From: "Drasko Cvijovic" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 14:08
Subject: Re: [eSens] another reply re. Drasko re.Stetzer....


>
>
> Shivani,
> Now it's time to stop this.
>
> 1. The most relevant is:
> Stetzer filters (and meters!!!) deal with currents within the wires. Their
> impact to overall pollution in the room is very small as the dirty
> electricity emanations from the wires are low in comparation with the
fields
> from mobile phone towers, radio stations, Dect phones, computers etc.
> It is like being concerned with mosquitoes in presence of a tiger. If, by
> any chance, the mosquitoes were poisoning mutants, while tiger had no
teeth,
> killing the mosquitoes could have made sense. But it would have been a
very
> strange occurance anyway, and would have reqiured special explanation on
the
> hidden nature of the event - to anybody attempting to understand the
> scene... Similarly applies to Stetzer filters - what I am concerned with
is
> that nobody even tries to explain why killing mosquitoes (small fields
> coming out of wires) is esential!!
>
> 2. Previous (and not the "70% issue"!) is what I addressed with Mr.
Stetzer
> and his colleague... The most strange was that they showed no much
> understanding for that very simple question, so that I had to keep
replying
> and sharpening the conversation what after several my attempts really did
> turn into a kind of interrogation. But what could have I done if one was
not
> responding (directly) to what I was asking?!
>
> 3. Although I am ready to believe those filters saved yours and many other
> lives, it becomes obvious that almost all your postings, whatever the
> subject is, include a sentence or two which could be considered as a
support
> to Stetzer marketing. You missed to tell us would there be any your
material
> interest with Stetzer's.
>
> 4. Similarly to Low's presence on the list, I wouldn't have cared for some
> marketing as far as based on (at least apparent) facts. But you
disseminate
> unfounded statements (not me!). Such statement is the one about 70%
current
> being returned through ground. I don't have opposed readings as I am not
in
> the US, I just, knowing it is not probable, what you to back up *your*
> statements... I even never found anybody from Stetzer's stating such
thing,

Our experience with Sue is that turning off the power in the house alleviates her symptoms a lot - more than avoidance of mobile phone masts. Also a nearby mobile or cordless phone causes her a lot more discomfort than most masts. This seems logical from the inverse square law. So this doesn't seem to bear out the idea of "mosquitoes" against "tigers".

Ian
----- Original Message -----
From: charles
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 1:56 PM
Subject: Re: [eSens] another reply re. Drasko re.Stetzer....


Hello Drasko,

I do have an opinion also.

I do not agree with you about point 1.
I have found, that the currents in the wires are also in the air.
With my VLF Detector, which has a retractable antenna, measures the same
peaks, when the Stetzeriser meter shows those peaks.
That is with a fraction delay in time.
I had a cabine of the cable television on the street, which gave pulses on
my mains, which I couls detect in the house.
After some disputing, the cable company removed a switching power supply
with one that works regularly, and those signals are gone.
In the air, as well as in the wires.

Regarding mosquitos.
I have a telephone wth wire, where I found 30 kHz disturbing signals, only
to be found when I placed the contact probe on the display of this
telephone. My wife felt those signals 2 meters away!!!
After exchanging with another wired telephone, the signals were not to be
found, and my wife had no troubles.

The same disturbing telephone I have installed now here in Belgium, but
there are no signals.
So the signals must be coming from the line of the dutch telephone company
in Holland.
You know, in the netherlands, the most telephone taps are placed there, more
than in the whole USA!

On the other hand, I found that after the Stetzer filter, the meter reads
less GS units, but on the line, the amount remains the same.
And the filters do not have an grounding pin, which I find very essential
for an electric mains.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes.nl
www.milieuziektes.be
www.hetbitje.nl
checked by Norton Antivirus





----- Original Message -----
From: "Drasko Cvijovic" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 14:08
Subject: Re: [eSens] another reply re. Drasko re.Stetzer....


>
>
> Shivani,
> Now it's time to stop this.
>
> 1. The most relevant is:
> Stetzer filters (and meters!!!) deal with currents within the wires. Their
> impact to overall pollution in the room is very small as the dirty
> electricity emanations from the wires are low in comparation with the
fields
> from mobile phone towers, radio stations, Dect phones, computers etc.
> It is like being concerned with mosquitoes in presence of a tiger. If, by
> any chance, the mosquitoes were poisoning mutants, while tiger had no
teeth,
> killing the mosquitoes could have made sense. But it would have been a
very
> strange occurance anyway, and would have reqiured special explanation on
the
> hidden nature of the event - to anybody attempting to understand the
> scene... Similarly applies to Stetzer filters - what I am concerned with
is
> that nobody even tries to explain why killing mosquitoes (small fields
> coming out of wires) is esential!!
>
> 2. Previous (and not the "70% issue"!) is what I addressed with Mr.
Stetzer
> and his colleague... The most strange was that they showed no much
> understanding for that very simple question, so that I had to keep
replying
> and sharpening the conversation what after several my attempts really did
> turn into a kind of interrogation. But what could have I done if one was
not
> responding (directly) to what I was asking?!
>
> 3. Although I am ready to believe those filters saved yours and many other
> lives, it becomes obvious that almost all your postings, whatever the
> subject is, include a sentence or two which could be considered as a
support
> to Stetzer marketing. You missed to tell us would there be any your
material
> interest with Stetzer's.
>
> 4. Similarly to Low's presence on the list, I wouldn't have cared for some
> marketing as far as based on (at least apparent) facts. But you
disseminate
> unfounded statements (not me!). Such statement is the one about 70%
current
> being returned through ground. I don't have opposed readings as I am not
in
> the US, I just, knowing it is not probable, what you to back up *your*
> statements... I even never found anybody from Stetzer's stating such
thing,



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Charles, you say, as I understand, "mosquitoes are rather big
sometimes". OK, that is a possible explanation!
Ian says that he never had problems with a tiger while mosquitoes do bother
him. That also makes sense.
But my concern is what Stetzer says! Not addressing mosquitoes / tiger issue
at all - looks like intentional ignoring of the problem... for some
reason...

Drasko


----- Original Message -----
From: "charles" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 2:56 PM
Subject: Re: [eSens] another reply re. Drasko re.Stetzer....

more Their
> > impact to overall pollution in the room is very small as the dirty
> > electricity emanations from the wires are low in comparation with the
> fields
> > from mobile phone towers, radio stations, Dect phones, computers etc.
> > It is like being concerned with mosquitoes in presence of a tiger. If,
by did
> > turn into a kind of interrogation. But what could have I done if one was
> not
> > responding (directly) to what I was asking?!
> >
> > 3. Although I am ready to believe those filters saved yours and many
other
> > lives, it becomes obvious that almost all your postings, whatever the
> > subject is, include a sentence or two which could be considered as a
> support
> > to Stetzer marketing. You missed to tell us would there be any your
> material
> > interest with Stetzer's.
> >
> > 4. Similarly to Low's presence on the list, I wouldn't have cared for
some