Re: Supplements - ban?

Wish I had my old links list still. Had some there. CODEX and DSHEA
are no joke. It's not only, eventually going to cover all natural
supplements, but eventually our whole food suppy.

With the supplements, it is the greed of the pharmaceutical industry
not having control over it. That's the only things I can afford, and I
don't like their chemicals anyhow.  

If you can't grow or collect your own herbs, you will need Rx's to get
them. There are frameworks in place that are going to be gradually
added to over time. If I find more info. I'll post it.

On another topic, from a link someone posted I found this, I think
someone asked about rebounding? I've been looking for one in 2nd hand
store myself, they get them occasionally -mini trampoline. Here's what
it said on the site:
Bouncing or Jumping is a Cellular Exercise
Your body has about 60 trillion cells. The 2 to 4 G forces
(gravitational pull) involved in bouncing squeezes out toxins. Then,
during the brief weightless period when the body is suspended in the
air, the lower pressure in the cell promotes the movement of nutrients
into the cells. Thus the flow of materials to and from cells is
improved. It is like getting every cell in your body to exercise. Its
the old Hokey-Cokey "in out in out, shake it all about"!
http://www.electrosensitivity.org.uk/ Under News Update section.

~ Snoshoe

--- In [hidden email], "Ian Kemp" <ianandsue.kemp@...> wrote:
>
> There has been quite a lot said over this side of the pond about the
> possibility of the EU requiring "natural" remedies and supplements to
go
> through clinical trials for effectiveness and side-effects, just like
> pharmaceutical drugs. Obviously this would increase their cost
> substantially and some items might be lost from the market. However
it is
> controversial and there are strong lobbies on both sides, so nothing
has
> happened as yet.
>
> Ian

> Wish I had my old links list still. Had some there. CODEX and DSHEA
> are no joke. It's not only, eventually going to cover all natural
> supplements, but eventually our whole food suppy.

Well, let's not get too much into the "doom & gloom" of predicting
the future. I'm on another health list where they frequently warn
everyone that all of our supplements are going to be taken away, and
not only have they proven to be wrong with all their predictions,
they also bring an air of negativity to the group which I don't
think is helping anyone in their recovery.

Marc

It's not meant to be doom and gloom at all, just a fact. I've been
keeping an eye on it for about 5-6yrs. now. Not a question of if, but
when. Tomorrow? No, and not for a while.
But, foreknowlege allows forethought, as to what you're going to do,
same as if you knew a mast was going to be set up next to your house
shortly.

For anyone interested:
http://www.vitaminexpress.com/codxpln.htm Explains the Codex
http://www.newmediaexplorer.org/sepp/2004/09/26/codex_committee_to_mee
t_in_germany_to_finalize_supplements_guidelines.htm This is older,
but I think a good article.
I think part of the problem arises because the German Commission E
has been looked to so long for their opinion on use and safety of
many herbs, and often what they say goes, regardless.

Had a thought earlier, for Tayloka, because it helps heal skin, if
not the problem, but has anyone tried Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy?  
Easier to get in Canada than here. I've had good experience the few
times I've been to an oxygen bar, although not long lived.

~ Snoshoe

--- In [hidden email], "Marc Martin" <marc@...> wrote:

> Well, let's not get too much into the "doom & gloom" of predicting
> the future. I'm on another health list where they frequently warn
> everyone that all of our supplements are going to be taken away,
and
> not only have they proven to be wrong with all their predictions,
> they also bring an air of negativity to the group which I don't
> think is helping anyone in their recovery.
>
> Marc
>

Without wanting to endorse the pharma companies and regulators too strongly,
I think they do have a point. New drugs have to go through various clinical
trials to make sure they are (a) effective and (b) not harmful to people, at
least in the short term. These aren't required for many "natural" products.
So we have the situation of some products being heavily advertised on the
Internet with what often sound like "pseudo-science" explanations and
unproven claims. Not only do some of these seem to be just making a lot of
money for the suppliers, they also can put people off useful supplements
from reputable suppliers which might really work - it's so hard to sort out
the wheat from the chaff.



The other angle is that self-treatment can cover up a serious problem. Some
supplements contain many times the normal required dose which most people
get from food. Either it's all hype, or if you really need something that
strong, it shows there's something badly wrong somewhere which needs
attention! Like if your fuse keeps blowing, you don't just stick in thicker
wire and metal rods, you try to find the short circuit. I firmly believe
that self-medication covered up the extent of Sue's problems during a period
when we might have had a chance of solving them, before her immune system
got too seriously compromised. But, that being said, I'm not sure even then
that we would have found anyone who really understood what was going on in
her body. It has taken a couple of years of searching and several months of
specialized tests to get any real idea.



Ian



_____

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
snoshoe_2
Sent: 01 February 2006 23:05
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [eSens] Re: Supplements - ban?



Wish I had my old links list still. Had some there. CODEX and DSHEA
are no joke. It's not only, eventually going to cover all natural
supplements, but eventually our whole food suppy.

With the supplements, it is the greed of the pharmaceutical industry
not having control over it. That's the only things I can afford, and I
don't like their chemicals anyhow.

If you can't grow or collect your own herbs, you will need Rx's to get
them. There are frameworks in place that are going to be gradually
added to over time. If I find more info. I'll post it.

On another topic, from a link someone posted I found this, I think
someone asked about rebounding? I've been looking for one in 2nd hand
store myself, they get them occasionally -mini trampoline. Here's what
it said on the site:
Bouncing or Jumping is a Cellular Exercise
Your body has about 60 trillion cells. The 2 to 4 G forces
(gravitational pull) involved in bouncing squeezes out toxins. Then,
during the brief weightless period when the body is suspended in the
air, the lower pressure in the cell promotes the movement of nutrients
into the cells. Thus the flow of materials to and from cells is
improved. It is like getting every cell in your body to exercise. Its
the old Hokey-Cokey "in out in out, shake it all about"!
http://www.electrosensitivity.org.uk/ Under News Update section.

~ Snoshoe

--- In [hidden email], "Ian Kemp" <ianandsue.kemp@...> wrote:
>
> There has been quite a lot said over this side of the pond about the
> possibility of the EU requiring "natural" remedies and supplements to
go
> through clinical trials for effectiveness and side-effects, just like
> pharmaceutical drugs. Obviously this would increase their cost
> substantially and some items might be lost from the market. However
it is
> controversial and there are strong lobbies on both sides, so nothing
has
> happened as yet.
>
> Ian







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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ian Kemp wrote:
> Without wanting to endorse the pharma companies and regulators too strongly,
> I think they do have a point. New drugs have to go through various clinical
> trials to make sure they are (a) effective and (b) not harmful to people

Hmmm, seems like I've been prescribed plenty of pharmaceuticals which were
either ineffective and/or harmful. I've even read that there are thousands
of deaths each year from drugs properly prescribed, so evidently these
clinical trials aren't worth much. Probably the whole process has been
corrupted by politics and profits.

Marc

Yup, clinical trials are of limited effectiveness, but they're better than
nothing (and they are also required by law, to try to avoid things like
thalidomide and snake-oil). As we know (and the drug companies admit), all
people are different and respond differently, so no drug, supplement, herb
or other treatment works on 100% of people. (Witness all the different
experiences people have in this group!). Clinical trials aim to show
whether or not there is an improvement averaged over the group as a result
of the treatment, compared with a placebo. In many ways it's a pity that
more "natural" remedies and supplements aren't trialled the same way - it
would prove conclusively the benefits that they bring. The barrier, sadly,
is cost.



Ian



_____

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Marc
Martin
Sent: 02 February 2006 02:57
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Supplements - ban?



Ian Kemp wrote:
> Without wanting to endorse the pharma companies and regulators too
strongly,
> I think they do have a point. New drugs have to go through various
clinical
> trials to make sure they are (a) effective and (b) not harmful to people

Hmmm, seems like I've been prescribed plenty of pharmaceuticals which were
either ineffective and/or harmful. I've even read that there are thousands
of deaths each year from drugs properly prescribed, so evidently these
clinical trials aren't worth much. Probably the whole process has been
corrupted by politics and profits.

Marc



_____

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the web.

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[hidden email]
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_____



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello Ian,

you do not understand.

Pharma industry feels threatened by homeopathy and food supplements.
So they invented the Codex.
Which is partly hold back in Rome.

There is a rule now, that all the stuff must be labeled and catalogised.
The costs per item are about 50.000 Euro.
So companies with an year turnover of 10.000 Euro per item do not applicate,
and their stuff disappears from the market.

An aspirin does not help against a fungus on your toenail, but perhaps
against a headache.
But that must be proven. So many things that a drug may help against are not
mentioned on the package anymore.

We know that echinaforce can help against a cold, but it is no longer
allowed to mention that on the packege.

A lot of health items are now sold as *body lotions*.

The Codex wanted to forbid a 5.000 food supplements.
Vitamin C also. The chemical vitamin C is forbidden, only ther natural
vitamin C is allowed.

The purpose is very simple.
*They* want people to get sick easily, so the pharma industry can have good
earnings.

The pharma industry is very powerfull and keen, and one may wonder why they
did not bring a good drug against electrosensibility.
It may be the same reason why they are against bioresonance therapy for
cancer.

You think it is farfetched?
Why do you think that the WHO says, that the trouble you and your wife are
having sits *between your ears* ?

In fact it is very easy to proof that it is an environmental disease, but
nobody wants that.
Nobody wants to look into that corner.
Only a few do, and they are regarded as lunatics.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes.nl
www.milieuziektes.be
www.hetbitje.nl
checked by Norton Antivirus



----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian Kemp" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 01:44
Subject: RE: [eSens] Re: Supplements - ban?

Hi, Snoshoe,

I am one who is into rebounding. In addition to exercising the cells, rebounding helps the lymphatic system, which only can operate with exercise. Also it is running against gravity, so the rebounding helps because you are weightless part of the time and exerting upward pressure part of the time.

I had read the same re a program in place to control supplements and foods, etc. They want to have a worldwide standard for all countries to go by. (But I think, like you, the supplement part is being controlled by big-pharma. Infact, they have been putting out occasional "research" results here and there on news reports about how supplements are not helpful for most people, how many ppl died from self prescribing supplements, etc. This is just designed to get us used to thinking supplements should be regulated.)

Hope you feel better soon,
Diane

snoshoe_2 <[hidden email]> wrote:
Wish I had my old links list still. Had some there. CODEX and DSHEA
are no joke. It's not only, eventually going to cover all natural
supplements, but eventually our whole food suppy.

With the supplements, it is the greed of the pharmaceutical industry
not having control over it. That's the only things I can afford, and I
don't like their chemicals anyhow.

If you can't grow or collect your own herbs, you will need Rx's to get
them. There are frameworks in place that are going to be gradually
added to over time. If I find more info. I'll post it.

On another topic, from a link someone posted I found this, I think
someone asked about rebounding? I've been looking for one in 2nd hand
store myself, they get them occasionally -mini trampoline. Here's what
it said on the site:
Bouncing or Jumping is a Cellular Exercise
Your body has about 60 trillion cells. The 2 to 4 G forces
(gravitational pull) involved in bouncing squeezes out toxins. Then,
during the brief weightless period when the body is suspended in the
air, the lower pressure in the cell promotes the movement of nutrients
into the cells. Thus the flow of materials to and from cells is
improved. It is like getting every cell in your body to exercise. Its
the old Hokey-Cokey "in out in out, shake it all about"!
http://www.electrosensitivity.org.uk/ Under News Update section.

~ Snoshoe

--- In [hidden email], "Ian Kemp" <ianandsue.kemp@...> wrote:
>
> There has been quite a lot said over this side of the pond about the
> possibility of the EU requiring "natural" remedies and supplements to
go
> through clinical trials for effectiveness and side-effects, just like
> pharmaceutical drugs. Obviously this would increase their cost
> substantially and some items might be lost from the market. However
it is
> controversial and there are strong lobbies on both sides, so nothing
has
> happened as yet.
>
> Ian






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---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi, Marc,

I agree with the no gloom and doom, but I think it is possible to be upbeat and aware of what is going on, too. And like I believe it was Andrew a while back, I do buy into some of the "conspiracy theories". There was a saying in the 60s, "Just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean there ain't people after ya." ;)

Diane
Marc Martin <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Wish I had my old links list still. Had some there. CODEX and DSHEA
> are no joke. It's not only, eventually going to cover all natural
> supplements, but eventually our whole food suppy.

Well, let's not get too much into the "doom & gloom" of predicting
the future. I'm on another health list where they frequently warn
everyone that all of our supplements are going to be taken away, and
not only have they proven to be wrong with all their predictions,
they also bring an air of negativity to the group which I don't
think is helping anyone in their recovery.

Marc


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi, Ian,

Unfortunately, many are like me--couldn't get medical help if we handed out million dollar bills at Mayo Clinic. I went to over 75 doctors and none could dx me. Only 2 could help me at all. If it hadn't been for my "self medicating", I would have had no medicating at all, except for antidepressants that seemingly every doctor I ever went to were so sure I needed and would help me, (and only made me worse on the few occasions I actually filled the prescriptions.) I agree that there are alot of snake oil salesmen out there, but in my experience, I have lost much less money over a $30/bottle supplement that didn't work than I have over a $130/visit to a doc plus a $100 prescription/visit. And most often when I did my homework first, the supplement worked and was not a loss.

Another 2 cents, ;)
Diane


Ian Kemp <[hidden email]> wrote:
Without wanting to endorse the pharma companies and regulators too strongly,
I think they do have a point. New drugs have to go through various clinical
trials to make sure they are (a) effective and (b) not harmful to people, at
least in the short term. These aren't required for many "natural" products.
So we have the situation of some products being heavily advertised on the
Internet with what often sound like "pseudo-science" explanations and
unproven claims. Not only do some of these seem to be just making a lot of
money for the suppliers, they also can put people off useful supplements
from reputable suppliers which might really work - it's so hard to sort out
the wheat from the chaff.



The other angle is that self-treatment can cover up a serious problem. Some
supplements contain many times the normal required dose which most people
get from food. Either it's all hype, or if you really need something that
strong, it shows there's something badly wrong somewhere which needs
attention! Like if your fuse keeps blowing, you don't just stick in thicker
wire and metal rods, you try to find the short circuit. I firmly believe
that self-medication covered up the extent of Sue's problems during a period
when we might have had a chance of solving them, before her immune system
got too seriously compromised. But, that being said, I'm not sure even then
that we would have found anyone who really understood what was going on in
her body. It has taken a couple of years of searching and several months of
specialized tests to get any real idea.



Ian



_____

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
snoshoe_2
Sent: 01 February 2006 23:05
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [eSens] Re: Supplements - ban?



Wish I had my old links list still. Had some there. CODEX and DSHEA
are no joke. It's not only, eventually going to cover all natural
supplements, but eventually our whole food suppy.

With the supplements, it is the greed of the pharmaceutical industry
not having control over it. That's the only things I can afford, and I
don't like their chemicals anyhow.

If you can't grow or collect your own herbs, you will need Rx's to get
them. There are frameworks in place that are going to be gradually
added to over time. If I find more info. I'll post it.

On another topic, from a link someone posted I found this, I think
someone asked about rebounding? I've been looking for one in 2nd hand
store myself, they get them occasionally -mini trampoline. Here's what
it said on the site:
Bouncing or Jumping is a Cellular Exercise
Your body has about 60 trillion cells. The 2 to 4 G forces
(gravitational pull) involved in bouncing squeezes out toxins. Then,
during the brief weightless period when the body is suspended in the
air, the lower pressure in the cell promotes the movement of nutrients
into the cells. Thus the flow of materials to and from cells is
improved. It is like getting every cell in your body to exercise. Its
the old Hokey-Cokey "in out in out, shake it all about"!
http://www.electrosensitivity.org.uk/ Under News Update section.

~ Snoshoe

--- In [hidden email], "Ian Kemp" <ianandsue.kemp@...> wrote:
>
> There has been quite a lot said over this side of the pond about the
> possibility of the EU requiring "natural" remedies and supplements to
go
> through clinical trials for effectiveness and side-effects, just like
> pharmaceutical drugs. Obviously this would increase their cost
> substantially and some items might be lost from the market. However
it is
> controversial and there are strong lobbies on both sides, so nothing
has
> happened as yet.
>
> Ian







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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Evie,

Yes you're absolutely right - the problem is very poorly understood at the
moment by the medical profession (and by everyone). We have got virtually
no useful help from the Health Service over here on this, a bit from
nutritionists and alternative health practitioners (but also a lot of
rubbish and some harm), and some real help from one or two private
specialists who were experienced doctors and took a real interest in this
area. They are expensive, and they have their own bees in their bonnets
which one has to be aware of, but from our experience they are the best
there is at the moment.

It seems to me therefore that we have to increase our efforts to collate
evidence and case histories and gain more widespread recognition in the
medical profession that ES and MCS are real (just as ME is now gaining more
acceptance). Then we might get young doctors who get the vision for
researching into the root causes and getting somewhere towards solving the
problem. At the moment it seems to me that young doctors fresh out of
medical school won't know the problem exists because it hasn't been
identified and taught to them, and if they do find out, they would be
frowned on for wanting to research into such a "way-out" subject and
wouldn't get grants. Most of the people we've met (doctors and
nutritionists) who have taken an interest in ME, MCS and ES have done so
because either they or a family member or close friend had the problem, and
it therefore came forcibly to their attention that (a) it exists and (b)
current medicine can't cure it!

Ian



_____

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Evie
Sent: 04 February 2006 09:28
To: [hidden email]
Subject: RE: [eSens] Re: Supplements - ban?



Hi, Ian,

Unfortunately, many are like me--couldn't get medical help if we handed
out million dollar bills at Mayo Clinic. I went to over 75 doctors and none
could dx me. Only 2 could help me at all. If it hadn't been for my "self
medicating", I would have had no medicating at all, except for
antidepressants that seemingly every doctor I ever went to were so sure I
needed and would help me, (and only made me worse on the few occasions I
actually filled the prescriptions.) I agree that there are alot of snake
oil salesmen out there, but in my experience, I have lost much less money
over a $30/bottle supplement that didn't work than I have over a $130/visit
to a doc plus a $100 prescription/visit. And most often when I did my
homework first, the supplement worked and was not a loss.

Another 2 cents, ;)
Diane


Ian Kemp <[hidden email]> wrote:
Without wanting to endorse the pharma companies and regulators too
strongly,
I think they do have a point. New drugs have to go through various clinical
trials to make sure they are (a) effective and (b) not harmful to people, at
least in the short term. These aren't required for many "natural" products.
So we have the situation of some products being heavily advertised on the
Internet with what often sound like "pseudo-science" explanations and
unproven claims. Not only do some of these seem to be just making a lot of
money for the suppliers, they also can put people off useful supplements
from reputable suppliers which might really work - it's so hard to sort out
the wheat from the chaff.



The other angle is that self-treatment can cover up a serious problem. Some
supplements contain many times the normal required dose which most people
get from food. Either it's all hype, or if you really need something that
strong, it shows there's something badly wrong somewhere which needs
attention! Like if your fuse keeps blowing, you don't just stick in thicker
wire and metal rods, you try to find the short circuit. I firmly believe
that self-medication covered up the extent of Sue's problems during a period
when we might have had a chance of solving them, before her immune system
got too seriously compromised. But, that being said, I'm not sure even then
that we would have found anyone who really understood what was going on in
her body. It has taken a couple of years of searching and several months of
specialized tests to get any real idea.



Ian



_____

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
snoshoe_2
Sent: 01 February 2006 23:05
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [eSens] Re: Supplements - ban?



Wish I had my old links list still. Had some there. CODEX and DSHEA
are no joke. It's not only, eventually going to cover all natural
supplements, but eventually our whole food suppy.

With the supplements, it is the greed of the pharmaceutical industry
not having control over it. That's the only things I can afford, and I
don't like their chemicals anyhow.

If you can't grow or collect your own herbs, you will need Rx's to get
them. There are frameworks in place that are going to be gradually
added to over time. If I find more info. I'll post it.

On another topic, from a link someone posted I found this, I think
someone asked about rebounding? I've been looking for one in 2nd hand
store myself, they get them occasionally -mini trampoline. Here's what
it said on the site:
Bouncing or Jumping is a Cellular Exercise
Your body has about 60 trillion cells. The 2 to 4 G forces
(gravitational pull) involved in bouncing squeezes out toxins. Then,
during the brief weightless period when the body is suspended in the
air, the lower pressure in the cell promotes the movement of nutrients
into the cells. Thus the flow of materials to and from cells is
improved. It is like getting every cell in your body to exercise. Its
the old Hokey-Cokey "in out in out, shake it all about"!
http://www.electrosensitivity.org.uk/ Under News Update section.

~ Snoshoe

--- In [hidden email], "Ian Kemp" <ianandsue.kemp@...> wrote:
>
> There has been quite a lot said over this side of the pond about the
> possibility of the EU requiring "natural" remedies and supplements to
go
> through clinical trials for effectiveness and side-effects, just like
> pharmaceutical drugs. Obviously this would increase their cost
> substantially and some items might be lost from the market. However
it is
> controversial and there are strong lobbies on both sides, so nothing
has
> happened as yet.
>
> Ian







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