Re: Radiation Shield Paints

>
> It means that it is not *clean*.
>
> And it means that the rod may bring *dirty power* into the house.
>
> Greetings,
> Charles Claessens
> member Verband Baubiologie
> www.milieuziektes.nl
> www.milieuziektes.be
> www.hetbitje.nl
> checked by Norton
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: kikkie2004
>   To: [hidden email]
>   Sent: Monday, May 23, 2011 9:20 AM
>   Subject: [eSens] Re: Radiation Shield Paints Q for Bill Bruno
>
>
>   Hi Bill
>
>   I was reading this and wanted to ask you:
>
>   If I hold the AM radio to the earthing rod (going into the earth, that I've grounded my faraday cage to) and it has a buzz, what does that mean?
>
>   Thanks
>   K
>
>   --- In [hidden email], Bill Bruno <wbruno@> wrote:
>   >
>   > Grounding to the outlet might not be good from the
>   > point of view of EMFs (it does add safety in the event
>   > of a hot wire touching the paint, especially if the wire is big enough so
>   > the breaker will trip).
>   >
>   > The outlet is connected to the power company at your
>   > panel (unless you've gone to an isolated ground system)
>   > so it has dirty power on it.  There is a ground rod probably
>   > at the panel but that's not very low impedance at all so it
>   > doesn't get rid of all of the high frequencies (not even all
>   > the low frequencies probably).
>   >
>   > A painted wall has some some intrinsic capacitance, and
>   > could also have conductivity or capacitance to ground.
>   >
>   > Try holding your AM radio near the ground wire.  If you
>   > pick up a buzz, or even if the radio stations suddenly are
>   > received at new frequencies, they you've created a ground
>   > path.
>   >
>   > A big choke in the system might help.  If there is very good
>   > conductance to ground from the wall you can safely remove
>   > the ground wire.  But usually to get it that good you have to
>   > install several ground rods 8' apart and have good soil.
>   >
>   > If there is nothing electrical that can possibly touch the paint,
>   > remove the wire and see if that feels better.
>   > You have to do something about the outlets and the wiring.
>   > Y-shield paint will not block dirty power frequencies.
>   > Maybe you can disconnect hot neutral and ground
>   > at the panel for that circuit.  There still could be
>   > capacitance between those wires and other wires.
>   > Are all electronics unplugged at night?
>   > Bill
>   >
>   > On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 2:00 PM, Loni <loni326@> wrote:
>   >
>   > >
>   > >
>   > > Could this be why I can't sleep in my bedroom. I have the Y shield paint
>   > > plus the window shielding Have the paint grounded by a metal strip that goes
>   > > all the way around the room to the the outlet.
>   > >
>   > > But no cover on the outlets. Just seems like a little area to cause my so
>   > > much pain????
>   > >
>   > > Loni
>   > >
>   > > --- On Thu, 5/5/11, Bill Bruno <wbruno@> wrote:
>   > >
>   > > From: Bill Bruno <wbruno@>
>   > > Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Radiation Shield Paints
>   > > To: [hidden email]
>   > > Date: Thursday, May 5, 2011, 9:21 AM
>   > >
>   > >
>   > > What you don't want is a hole in the shield with a wire going through the
>   > > hole.
>   > >
>   > > If you have an unshielded outlet there will be leakage.
>   > >
>   > > Ideally any holes should be less than 1/2 inch.
>   > >
>   > > The best way with outlets would be to use metal junction boxes
>   > > and compression fitting to metal conduits to a filter.
>   > >
>   > > They used to make metal covered outlet covers for outdoors.
>   > >
>   > > If the outlets are live, think safety first.
>   > >
>   > > On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 10:13 AM, chelseapaul1010
>   > > <pbarnes@>wrote:
>   > >
>   > > >
>   > > >
>   > > > Cheers for the advice.
>   > > >
>   > > > One thing, when you say 'penetrations' do you mean plug sockets? Or are
>   > > > they ok to be left uncovered? I wont have any electrical devices in the
>   > > room
>   > > > at all...
>   > > >
>   > > >
>   > > > --- In [hidden email], Bill Bruno <wbruno@> wrote:
>   > > > >
>   > > > > I agree with Emil. If there are any penetrations by wires you
>   > > > > need to have a filter right there grounded to the shield, with
>   > > > > no leaks in the shield. Small holes are OK but no penetrations
>   > > > > or long gaps or cracks.
>   > > > > Bill
>   > > > >
>   > > > > On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 10:04 AM, Emil at Less EMF Inc
>   > > > > <lessemf@>wrote:
>   > > >
>   > > > >
>   > > > > >
>   > > > > >
>   > > > > > If you are making a complete enclosure,
>   > > > > > and all the shielding is grounded to the same ground,
>   > > > > > AND you don't have live electric wires INSIDE the shielded area,
>   > > > > > then the electric potential will be equal on all surfaces. You will
>   > > > have no
>   > > > > >
>   > > > > > electric field inside, regardless of voltage on the ground.
>   > > > > >
>   > > > > > Emil
>   > > > > >
>   > > > > >
>   > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
>   > > > > > From: "chelseapaul1010" <pbarnes@>
>   > > > > > To: <[hidden email]>
>   > > > > > Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 6:54 AM
>   > > > > > Subject: [eSens] Re: Radiation Shield Paints
>   > > > > >
>   > > > > > This is slightly worrying as I am currently in the process of
>   > > painting
>   > > > my
>   > > > > > bedroom! Is there anything that can be done to guard against the
>   > > spread
>   > > > of
>   > > > > > electrical fields in a painted room? I have already grounded the
>   > > paint,
>   > > > and
>   > > > > >
>   > > > > > am covering the floor with aluminium insulating foil (under the
>   > > carpet)
>   > > > to
>   > > > > > prevent radiation from coming in from below. My window has protective
>   > > > film
>   > > > > > on it and I am also buying some aluminium blinds for a bit of extra
>   > > > > > protection.
>   > > > > >
>   > > > > > Obvously I have not spent any length of time in the room yet as it is
>   > > > not
>   > > > > > finished but I am hopeful it will give me an area of relative calm
>   > > for
>   > > > when
>   > > > > >
>   > > > > > I'm asleep at least! Any extra advice would be welcome...
>   > > > > >
>   > > > > > Paul
>   > > > > >
>   > > > > > --- In [hidden email], Ole Alstrup <alstrup@> wrote:
>   > > > > > >
>   > > > > > > Thanks for the clarification and the extra info, greatly
>   > > appreciated!
>   > > > I
>   > > > > > > will try and find the earlier postings on this topic. Thanks!
>   > > > > > >
>   > > > > > >
>   > > > > > > From: emraware <emraware@>
>   > > > > > > >To: [hidden email]
>   > > > > > > >Sent: Thursday, 5 May 2011, 3:53
>   > > > > > > >Subject: [eSens] Re: Radiation Shield Paints
>   > > > > > > >
>   > > > > > > >
>   > > > > > > >Â
>   > > > > > > >Sorry my misunderstanding-- your email mentioned:
>   > > > > > > >"radiation shield paints that can block radiation from mobile
>   > > > phones"
>   > > > > > > >
>   > > > > > > >I meant to warn that 45 dB may not be enough for mobile phone
>   > > > radiation.
>   > > > > >
>   > > > > > > >For outside cellular towers and communications, though, it is weak
>   > > > > > enough
>   > > > > > > >that 45 dB is probably enough, if done properly.
>   > > > > > > >
>   > > > > > > >Just be aware that radiation shielding paints may spread
>   > > electrical
>   > > > > > > >fields. I suppose grounding might help, but some others on this
>   > > > forum
>   > > > > > > >seemed to mention things getting worse after they painted with
>   > > > > > conductive
>   > > > > > > >paint, even when they turned off the electricity.
>   > > > > > > >
>   > > > > > > >Personally I prefer something less permanent than paint, so that
>   > > if
>   > > > I
>   > > > > > > >make a mistake, I can remove it.
>   > > > > > > >
>   > > > > > > >--- In [hidden email], Ole Alstrup <alstrup@> wrote:
>   > > > > > > >>
>   > > > > > > >> My query was for reducing or blocking outside radiation from
>   > > > cellular
>   > > > > > > >> towers and communication.Ã, Are you saying that Y-shield
>   > > > > > > >> paintings with a screening reduction between 43-45dB is not
>   > > > > > > >> sufficient?Ã, There are some real life examples in the pdf
>   > > > document
>   > > > > > > >> at http://www.yshield.com/pdf/YSHIELD-EN-ShieldingPaints.pdf
>   > > > > > > >>
>   > > > > > > >> From: emraware <emraware@>
>   > > > > > > >> >To: [hidden email]
>   > > > > > > >> >Sent: Wednesday, 4 May 2011, 2:56
>   > > > > > > >> >Subject: [eSens] Re: Radiation Shield Paints
>   > > > > > > >> >
>   > > > > > > >> >
>   > > > > > > >> >Ã,Â
>   > > > > > > >> >
>   > > > > > > >> >I would think an air tube headset with long extension cord
>   > > might
>   > > > be a
>   > > > > >
>   > > > > > > >> >safer bet. (How would you paint your cell phone ?) Cell phone
>   > > > > > > >> >radiation is quite strong locally and would probably easily
>   > > > penetrate
>   > > > > >
>   > > > > > > >> >a 60 dB barrier.
>   > > > > > > >> >
>   > > > > > > >> >--- In [hidden email], Ole Alstrup <alstrup@> wrote:
>   > > > > > > >> >>
>   > > > > > > >> >> Hello Emil,
>   > > > > > > >> >> Ãfâ?sÃ,Â
>   > > > > >
>   > > > > > > >> >> Thanks very much! I see this is available in the EU as well.
>   > > > > > > >> >> Ãfâ?sÃ,Â
>   > > > > > > >> >> Gratefully,
>   > > > > > > >> >> Ãfâ?sÃ,Â
>   > > > > >
>   > > > > > > >> >> Ole
>   > > > > > > >> >>
>   > > > > > > >> >> From: Emil at Less EMF Inc <lessemf@>
>   > > > > > > >> >> >To: [hidden email]
>   > > > > > > >> >> >Sent: Tuesday, 3 May 2011, 15:49
>   > > > > > > >> >> >Subject: Re: [eSens] Radiation Shield Paints
>   > > > > > > >> >> >
>   > > > > > > >> >> >
>   > > > > > > >> >> >Ãfâ?sÃ,Â
>   > > > > >
>   > > > > > > >> >> >Hello Ole,
>   > > > > > > >> >> >
>   > > > > > > >> >> >Yes, see http://www.lessemf.com/paint.html
>   > > > > > > >> >> >We offer 2 RF shielding paints: CuPro-Cote and Y-Shield.
>   > > > > > > >> >> >
>   > > > > > > >> >> >Emil DeToffol
>   > > > > > > >> >> >Less EMF Inc.
>   > > > > > > >> >> >809 Madison Ave.
>   > > > > > > >> >> >Albany NY 12208 USA
>   > > > > > > >> >> >tel: +1-518-432-1550
>   > > > > > > >> >> >www.lessemf.com
>   > > > > > > >> >> >----- Original Message -----
>   > > > > > > >> >> >From: <alstrup@>
>   > > > > > > >> >> >To: <[hidden email]>
>   > > > > > > >> >> >Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 8:53 AM
>   > > > > > > >> >> >Subject: [eSens] Radiation Shield Paints
>   > > > > > > >> >> >
>   > > > > > > >> >> >> Hi Folks,
>   > > > > > > >> >> >>
>   > > > > > > >> >> >> I need some leads/links to radiation shield paints that
>   > > can
>   > > > > > block
>   > > > > > > >> >> >> radiation from mobile phones. I recall having read about
>   > > the
>   > > > > > > >> >> >> availability
>   > > > > > > >> >> >> of these some years ago ie. used for blocking
>   > > communication
>   > > > in
>   > > > > > > >> >> >> cinemas
>   > > > > > > >> >> >> etc. They have to work across the mw spectrum to block
>   > > GSM,
>   > > > 3G
>   > > > > > > >> >> >> and 4G.
>   > > > > > > >> >> >>
>   > > > > > > >> >> >> Thanks,
>   > > > > > > >> >> >>
>   > > > > > > >> >> >> Ole
>   > > > > > > >> >> >>
>   > > > > > > >> >> >>
>   > > > > > > >> >> >>
>   > > > > > > >> >> >> ------------------------------------
>   > > > > > > >> >> >>
>   > > > > > > >> >> >> Yahoo! Groups Links
>   > > > > > > >> >> >>
>   > > > > > > >> >> >>
>   > > > > > > >> >> >>
>   > > > > > > >> >> >>
>   > > > > > > >> >> >>
>   > > > > > > >> >> >
>   > > > > > > >> >> >
>   > > > > > > >> >> >
>   > > > > > > >> >> >
>   > > > > > > >> >> >
>   > > > > > > >> >>
>   > > > > > > >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>   > > > > > > >> >>
>   > > > > > > >> >
>   > > > > > > >> >
>   > > > > > > >> >
>   > > > > > > >> >
>   > > > > > > >> >
>   > > > > > > >>
>   > > > > > > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>   > > > > > > >>
>   > > > > > > >
>   > > > > > > >
>   > > > > > > >
>   > > > > > > >
>   > > > > > > >
>   > > > > > >
>   > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>   > > > > > >
>   > > > > >
>   > > > > > ------------------------------------
>   > > > > >
>   > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
>   > > > > >
>   > > > > >
>   > > > > >
>   > > > >
>   > > > >
>   > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>   > > > >
>   > > >
>   > > >
>   > > >
>   > >
>   > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>   > >
>   > > ------------------------------------
>   > >
>   > > Yahoo! Groups Links
>   > >
>   > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>   > >
>   > >  
>   > >
>   >
>   >
>   > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>   >
>
>
>
>
>   ------------------------------------
>
>   Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

>
> Well, in that case, your shielding had a coupling of electrical fields from the electrical wiring in your walls and appliances.
>
> Greetings,
> Charles Claessens
> member Verband Baubiologie
> www.milieuziektes.nl
> www.milieuziektes.be
> www.hetbitje.nl
> checked by Norton
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: kikkie2004
>   To: [hidden email]
>   Sent: Monday, May 23, 2011 11:25 AM
>   Subject: [eSens] Re: Radiation Shield Paints Q for Bill Bruno
>
>
>   Thanks Charles.
>
>   But before I attached the copper wire coming from the room, there was
>   no noise on the earth rod - it was quiet.
>
>   And then when I attached the copper wire (which is connected to the foil inside the room) to it, it started having a buzzing noise on it.  I assumed it was taking some 'dirty electricity' into the earth, if that makes sense.
>
>   The same goes for the earthing spike on the other side of the house, connected to the 'mini' faraday cage I have my PC monitor in. No noise on the earth rod until I connected it to the cage.
>
>   Thanks
>   K
>
>   --- In [hidden email], "charles" <charles@> wrote:
>   >
>   > It means that it is not *clean*.
>   >
>   > And it means that the rod may bring *dirty power* into the house.
>   >
>   > Greetings,
>   > Charles Claessens
>   > member Verband Baubiologie
>   > www.milieuziektes.nl
>   > www.milieuziektes.be
>   > www.hetbitje.nl
>   > checked by Norton
>   >
>   >   ----- Original Message -----
>   >   From: kikkie2004
>   >   To: [hidden email]
>   >   Sent: Monday, May 23, 2011 9:20 AM
>   >   Subject: [eSens] Re: Radiation Shield Paints Q for Bill Bruno
>   >
>   >
>   >   Hi Bill
>   >
>   >   I was reading this and wanted to ask you:
>   >
>   >   If I hold the AM radio to the earthing rod (going into the earth, that I've grounded my faraday cage to) and it has a buzz, what does that mean?
>   >
>   >   Thanks
>   >   K
>   >
>   >   --- In [hidden email], Bill Bruno <wbruno@> wrote:
>   >   >
>   >   > Grounding to the outlet might not be good from the
>   >   > point of view of EMFs (it does add safety in the event
>   >   > of a hot wire touching the paint, especially if the wire is big enough so
>   >   > the breaker will trip).
>   >   >
>   >   > The outlet is connected to the power company at your
>   >   > panel (unless you've gone to an isolated ground system)
>   >   > so it has dirty power on it.  There is a ground rod probably
>   >   > at the panel but that's not very low impedance at all so it
>   >   > doesn't get rid of all of the high frequencies (not even all
>   >   > the low frequencies probably).
>   >   >
>   >   > A painted wall has some some intrinsic capacitance, and
>   >   > could also have conductivity or capacitance to ground.
>   >   >
>   >   > Try holding your AM radio near the ground wire.  If you
>   >   > pick up a buzz, or even if the radio stations suddenly are
>   >   > received at new frequencies, they you've created a ground
>   >   > path.
>   >   >
>   >   > A big choke in the system might help.  If there is very good
>   >   > conductance to ground from the wall you can safely remove
>   >   > the ground wire.  But usually to get it that good you have to
>   >   > install several ground rods 8' apart and have good soil.
>   >   >
>   >   > If there is nothing electrical that can possibly touch the paint,
>   >   > remove the wire and see if that feels better.
>   >   > You have to do something about the outlets and the wiring.
>   >   > Y-shield paint will not block dirty power frequencies.
>   >   > Maybe you can disconnect hot neutral and ground
>   >   > at the panel for that circuit.  There still could be
>   >   > capacitance between those wires and other wires.
>   >   > Are all electronics unplugged at night?
>   >   > Bill
>   >   >
>   >   > On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 2:00 PM, Loni <loni326@> wrote:
>   >   >
>   >   > >
>   >   > >
>   >   > > Could this be why I can't sleep in my bedroom. I have the Y shield paint
>   >   > > plus the window shielding Have the paint grounded by a metal strip that goes
>   >   > > all the way around the room to the the outlet.
>   >   > >
>   >   > > But no cover on the outlets. Just seems like a little area to cause my so
>   >   > > much pain????
>   >   > >
>   >   > > Loni
>   >   > >
>   >   > > --- On Thu, 5/5/11, Bill Bruno <wbruno@> wrote:
>   >   > >
>   >   > > From: Bill Bruno <wbruno@>
>   >   > > Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Radiation Shield Paints
>   >   > > To: [hidden email]
>   >   > > Date: Thursday, May 5, 2011, 9:21 AM
>   >   > >
>   >   > >
>   >   > > What you don't want is a hole in the shield with a wire going through the
>   >   > > hole.
>   >   > >
>   >   > > If you have an unshielded outlet there will be leakage.
>   >   > >
>   >   > > Ideally any holes should be less than 1/2 inch.
>   >   > >
>   >   > > The best way with outlets would be to use metal junction boxes
>   >   > > and compression fitting to metal conduits to a filter.
>   >   > >
>   >   > > They used to make metal covered outlet covers for outdoors.
>   >   > >
>   >   > > If the outlets are live, think safety first.
>   >   > >
>   >   > > On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 10:13 AM, chelseapaul1010
>   >   > > <pbarnes@>wrote:
>   >   > >
>   >   > > >
>   >   > > >
>   >   > > > Cheers for the advice.
>   >   > > >
>   >   > > > One thing, when you say 'penetrations' do you mean plug sockets? Or are
>   >   > > > they ok to be left uncovered? I wont have any electrical devices in the
>   >   > > room
>   >   > > > at all...
>   >   > > >
>   >   > > >
>   >   > > > --- In [hidden email], Bill Bruno <wbruno@> wrote:
>   >   > > > >
>   >   > > > > I agree with Emil. If there are any penetrations by wires you
>   >   > > > > need to have a filter right there grounded to the shield, with
>   >   > > > > no leaks in the shield. Small holes are OK but no penetrations
>   >   > > > > or long gaps or cracks.
>   >   > > > > Bill
>   >   > > > >
>   >   > > > > On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 10:04 AM, Emil at Less EMF Inc
>   >   > > > > <lessemf@>wrote:
>   >   > > >
>   >   > > > >
>   >   > > > > >
>   >   > > > > >
>   >   > > > > > If you are making a complete enclosure,
>   >   > > > > > and all the shielding is grounded to the same ground,
>   >   > > > > > AND you don't have live electric wires INSIDE the shielded area,
>   >   > > > > > then the electric potential will be equal on all surfaces. You will
>   >   > > > have no
>   >   > > > > >
>   >   > > > > > electric field inside, regardless of voltage on the ground.
>   >   > > > > >
>   >   > > > > > Emil
>   >   > > > > >
>   >   > > > > >
>   >   > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
>   >   > > > > > From: "chelseapaul1010" <pbarnes@>
>   >   > > > > > To: <[hidden email]>
>   >   > > > > > Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 6:54 AM
>   >   > > > > > Subject: [eSens] Re: Radiation Shield Paints
>   >   > > > > >
>   >   > > > > > This is slightly worrying as I am currently in the process of
>   >   > > painting
>   >   > > > my
>   >   > > > > > bedroom! Is there anything that can be done to guard against the
>   >   > > spread
>   >   > > > of
>   >   > > > > > electrical fields in a painted room? I have already grounded the
>   >   > > paint,
>   >   > > > and
>   >   > > > > >
>   >   > > > > > am covering the floor with aluminium insulating foil (under the
>   >   > > carpet)
>   >   > > > to
>   >   > > > > > prevent radiation from coming in from below. My window has protective
>   >   > > > film
>   >   > > > > > on it and I am also buying some aluminium blinds for a bit of extra
>   >   > > > > > protection.
>   >   > > > > >
>   >   > > > > > Obvously I have not spent any length of time in the room yet as it is
>   >   > > > not
>   >   > > > > > finished but I am hopeful it will give me an area of relative calm
>   >   > > for
>   >   > > > when
>   >   > > > > >
>   >   > > > > > I'm asleep at least! Any extra advice would be welcome...
>   >   > > > > >
>   >   > > > > > Paul
>   >   > > > > >
>   >   > > > > > --- In [hidden email], Ole Alstrup <alstrup@> wrote:
>   >   > > > > > >
>   >   > > > > > > Thanks for the clarification and the extra info, greatly
>   >   > > appreciated!
>   >   > > > I
>   >   > > > > > > will try and find the earlier postings on this topic. Thanks!
>   >   > > > > > >
>   >   > > > > > >
>   >   > > > > > > From: emraware <emraware@>
>   >   > > > > > > >To: [hidden email]
>   >   > > > > > > >Sent: Thursday, 5 May 2011, 3:53
>   >   > > > > > > >Subject: [eSens] Re: Radiation Shield Paints
>   >   > > > > > > >
>   >   > > > > > > >
>   >   > > > > > > >Â
>   >   > > > > > > >Sorry my misunderstanding-- your email mentioned:
>   >   > > > > > > >"radiation shield paints that can block radiation from mobile
>   >   > > > phones"
>   >   > > > > > > >
>   >   > > > > > > >I meant to warn that 45 dB may not be enough for mobile phone
>   >   > > > radiation.
>   >   > > > > >
>   >   > > > > > > >For outside cellular towers and communications, though, it is weak
>   >   > > > > > enough
>   >   > > > > > > >that 45 dB is probably enough, if done properly.
>   >   > > > > > > >
>   >   > > > > > > >Just be aware that radiation shielding paints may spread
>   >   > > electrical
>   >   > > > > > > >fields. I suppose grounding might help, but some others on this
>   >   > > > forum
>   >   > > > > > > >seemed to mention things getting worse after they painted with
>   >   > > > > > conductive
>   >   > > > > > > >paint, even when they turned off the electricity.
>   >   > > > > > > >
>   >   > > > > > > >Personally I prefer something less permanent than paint, so that
>   >   > > if
>   >   > > > I
>   >   > > > > > > >make a mistake, I can remove it.
>   >   > > > > > > >
>   >   > > > > > > >--- In [hidden email], Ole Alstrup <alstrup@> wrote:
>   >   > > > > > > >>
>   >   > > > > > > >> My query was for reducing or blocking outside radiation from
>   >   > > > cellular
>   >   > > > > > > >> towers and communication.Ã, Are you saying that Y-shield
>   >   > > > > > > >> paintings with a screening reduction between 43-45dB is not
>   >   > > > > > > >> sufficient?Ã, There are some real life examples in the pdf
>   >   > > > document
>   >   > > > > > > >> at http://www.yshield.com/pdf/YSHIELD-EN-ShieldingPaints.pdf
>   >   > > > > > > >>
>   >   > > > > > > >> From: emraware <emraware@>
>   >   > > > > > > >> >To: [hidden email]
>   >   > > > > > > >> >Sent: Wednesday, 4 May 2011, 2:56
>   >   > > > > > > >> >Subject: [eSens] Re: Radiation Shield Paints
>   >   > > > > > > >> >
>   >   > > > > > > >> >
>   >   > > > > > > >> >Ã,Â
>   >   > > > > > > >> >
>   >   > > > > > > >> >I would think an air tube headset with long extension cord
>   >   > > might
>   >   > > > be a
>   >   > > > > >
>   >   > > > > > > >> >safer bet. (How would you paint your cell phone ?) Cell phone
>   >   > > > > > > >> >radiation is quite strong locally and would probably easily
>   >   > > > penetrate
>   >   > > > > >
>   >   > > > > > > >> >a 60 dB barrier.
>   >   > > > > > > >> >
>   >   > > > > > > >> >--- In [hidden email], Ole Alstrup <alstrup@> wrote:
>   >   > > > > > > >> >>
>   >   > > > > > > >> >> Hello Emil,
>   >   > > > > > > >> >> Ãfâ?sÃ,Â
>   >   > > > > >
>   >   > > > > > > >> >> Thanks very much! I see this is available in the EU as well.
>   >   > > > > > > >> >> Ãfâ?sÃ,Â
>   >   > > > > > > >> >> Gratefully,
>   >   > > > > > > >> >> Ãfâ?sÃ,Â
>   >   > > > > >
>   >   > > > > > > >> >> Ole
>   >   > > > > > > >> >>
>   >   > > > > > > >> >> From: Emil at Less EMF Inc <lessemf@>
>   >   > > > > > > >> >> >To: [hidden email]
>   >   > > > > > > >> >> >Sent: Tuesday, 3 May 2011, 15:49
>   >   > > > > > > >> >> >Subject: Re: [eSens] Radiation Shield Paints
>   >   > > > > > > >> >> >
>   >   > > > > > > >> >> >
>   >   > > > > > > >> >> >Ãfâ?sÃ,Â
>   >   > > > > >
>   >   > > > > > > >> >> >Hello Ole,
>   >   > > > > > > >> >> >
>   >   > > > > > > >> >> >Yes, see http://www.lessemf.com/paint.html
>   >   > > > > > > >> >> >We offer 2 RF shielding paints: CuPro-Cote and Y-Shield.
>   >   > > > > > > >> >> >
>   >   > > > > > > >> >> >Emil DeToffol
>   >   > > > > > > >> >> >Less EMF Inc.
>   >   > > > > > > >> >> >809 Madison Ave.
>   >   > > > > > > >> >> >Albany NY 12208 USA
>   >   > > > > > > >> >> >tel: +1-518-432-1550
>   >   > > > > > > >> >> >www.lessemf.com
>   >   > > > > > > >> >> >----- Original Message -----
>   >   > > > > > > >> >> >From: <alstrup@>
>   >   > > > > > > >> >> >To: <[hidden email]>
>   >   > > > > > > >> >> >Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 8:53 AM
>   >   > > > > > > >> >> >Subject: [eSens] Radiation Shield Paints
>   >   > > > > > > >> >> >
>   >   > > > > > > >> >> >> Hi Folks,
>   >   > > > > > > >> >> >>
>   >   > > > > > > >> >> >> I need some leads/links to radiation shield paints that
>   >   > > can
>   >   > > > > > block
>   >   > > > > > > >> >> >> radiation from mobile phones. I recall having read about
>   >   > > the
>   >   > > > > > > >> >> >> availability
>   >   > > > > > > >> >> >> of these some years ago ie. used for blocking
>   >   > > communication
>   >   > > > in
>   >   > > > > > > >> >> >> cinemas
>   >   > > > > > > >> >> >> etc. They have to work across the mw spectrum to block
>   >   > > GSM,
>   >   > > > 3G
>   >   > > > > > > >> >> >> and 4G.
>   >   > > > > > > >> >> >>
>   >   > > > > > > >> >> >> Thanks,
>   >   > > > > > > >> >> >>
>   >   > > > > > > >> >> >> Ole
>   >   > > > > > > >> >> >>
>   >   > > > > > > >> >> >>
>   >   > > > > > > >> >> >>
>   >   > > > > > > >> >> >> ------------------------------------
>   >   > > > > > > >> >> >>
>   >   > > > > > > >> >> >> Yahoo! Groups Links
>   >   > > > > > > >> >> >>
>   >   > > > > > > >> >> >>
>   >   > > > > > > >> >> >>
>   >   > > > > > > >> >> >>
>   >   > > > > > > >> >> >>
>   >   > > > > > > >> >> >
>   >   > > > > > > >> >> >
>   >   > > > > > > >> >> >
>   >   > > > > > > >> >> >
>   >   > > > > > > >> >> >
>   >   > > > > > > >> >>
>   >   > > > > > > >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>   >   > > > > > > >> >>
>   >   > > > > > > >> >
>   >   > > > > > > >> >
>   >   > > > > > > >> >
>   >   > > > > > > >> >
>   >   > > > > > > >> >
>   >   > > > > > > >>
>   >   > > > > > > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>   >   > > > > > > >>
>   >   > > > > > > >
>   >   > > > > > > >
>   >   > > > > > > >
>   >   > > > > > > >
>   >   > > > > > > >
>   >   > > > > > >
>   >   > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>   >   > > > > > >
>   >   > > > > >
>   >   > > > > > ------------------------------------
>   >   > > > > >
>   >   > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
>   >   > > > > >
>   >   > > > > >
>   >   > > > > >
>   >   > > > >
>   >   > > > >
>   >   > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>   >   > > > >
>   >   > > >
>   >   > > >
>   >   > > >
>   >   > >
>   >   > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>   >   > >
>   >   > > ------------------------------------
>   >   > >
>   >   > > Yahoo! Groups Links
>   >   > >
>   >   > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>   >   > >
>   >   > >  
>   >   > >
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>   >   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >   ------------------------------------
>   >
>   >   Yahoo! Groups Links
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>   >
>
>
>
>
>   ------------------------------------
>
>   Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

>
>
> Hi Bill
>
> I was reading this and wanted to ask you:
>
> If I hold the AM radio to the earthing rod (going into the earth, that I've
> grounded my faraday cage to) and it has a buzz, what does that mean?
>
> Thanks
> K
>
> --- In [hidden email], Bill Bruno <wbruno@...> wrote:
> >
> > Grounding to the outlet might not be good from the
> > point of view of EMFs (it does add safety in the event
> > of a hot wire touching the paint, especially if the wire is big enough so
> > the breaker will trip).
> >
> > The outlet is connected to the power company at your
> > panel (unless you've gone to an isolated ground system)
> > so it has dirty power on it. There is a ground rod probably
> > at the panel but that's not very low impedance at all so it
> > doesn't get rid of all of the high frequencies (not even all
> > the low frequencies probably).
> >
> > A painted wall has some some intrinsic capacitance, and
> > could also have conductivity or capacitance to ground.
> >
> > Try holding your AM radio near the ground wire. If you
> > pick up a buzz, or even if the radio stations suddenly are
> > received at new frequencies, they you've created a ground
> > path.
> >
> > A big choke in the system might help. If there is very good
> > conductance to ground from the wall you can safely remove
> > the ground wire. But usually to get it that good you have to
> > install several ground rods 8' apart and have good soil.
> >
> > If there is nothing electrical that can possibly touch the paint,
> > remove the wire and see if that feels better.
> > You have to do something about the outlets and the wiring.
> > Y-shield paint will not block dirty power frequencies.
> > Maybe you can disconnect hot neutral and ground
> > at the panel for that circuit. There still could be
> > capacitance between those wires and other wires.
> > Are all electronics unplugged at night?
> > Bill
> >
> > On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 2:00 PM, Loni <loni326@...> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Could this be why I can't sleep in my bedroom. I have the Y shield
> paint
> > > plus the window shielding Have the paint grounded by a metal strip that
> goes
> > > all the way around the room to the the outlet.
> > >
> > > But no cover on the outlets. Just seems like a little area to cause my
> so
> > > much pain????
> > >
> > > Loni
> > >
> > > --- On Thu, 5/5/11, Bill Bruno <wbruno@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > From: Bill Bruno <wbruno@...>
> > > Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Radiation Shield Paints
> > > To: [hidden email]
> > > Date: Thursday, May 5, 2011, 9:21 AM
> > >
> > >
> > > What you don't want is a hole in the shield with a wire going through
> the
> > > hole.
> > >
> > > If you have an unshielded outlet there will be leakage.
> > >
> > > Ideally any holes should be less than 1/2 inch.
> > >
> > > The best way with outlets would be to use metal junction boxes
> > > and compression fitting to metal conduits to a filter.
> > >
> > > They used to make metal covered outlet covers for outdoors.
> > >
> > > If the outlets are live, think safety first.
> > >
> > > On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 10:13 AM, chelseapaul1010
> > > <pbarnes@...>wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Cheers for the advice.
> > > >
> > > > One thing, when you say 'penetrations' do you mean plug sockets? Or
> are
> > > > they ok to be left uncovered? I wont have any electrical devices in
> the
> > > room
> > > > at all...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In [hidden email], Bill Bruno <wbruno@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I agree with Emil. If there are any penetrations by wires you
> > > > > need to have a filter right there grounded to the shield, with
> > > > > no leaks in the shield. Small holes are OK but no penetrations
> > > > > or long gaps or cracks.
> > > > > Bill
> > > > >
> > > > > On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 10:04 AM, Emil at Less EMF Inc
> > > > > <lessemf@>wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If you are making a complete enclosure,
> > > > > > and all the shielding is grounded to the same ground,
> > > > > > AND you don't have live electric wires INSIDE the shielded area,
> > > > > > then the electric potential will be equal on all surfaces. You
> will
> > > > have no
> > > > > >
> > > > > > electric field inside, regardless of voltage on the ground.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Emil
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: "chelseapaul1010" <pbarnes@>
> > > > > > To: <[hidden email]>
> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 6:54 AM
> > > > > > Subject: [eSens] Re: Radiation Shield Paints
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This is slightly worrying as I am currently in the process of
> > > painting
> > > > my
> > > > > > bedroom! Is there anything that can be done to guard against the
> > > spread
> > > > of
> > > > > > electrical fields in a painted room? I have already grounded the
> > > paint,
> > > > and
> > > > > >
> > > > > > am covering the floor with aluminium insulating foil (under the
> > > carpet)
> > > > to
> > > > > > prevent radiation from coming in from below. My window has
> protective
> > > > film
> > > > > > on it and I am also buying some aluminium blinds for a bit of
> extra
> > > > > > protection.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Obvously I have not spent any length of time in the room yet as
> it is
> > > > not
> > > > > > finished but I am hopeful it will give me an area of relative
> calm
> > > for
> > > > when
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm asleep at least! Any extra advice would be welcome...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Paul
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In [hidden email], Ole Alstrup <alstrup@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks for the clarification and the extra info, greatly
> > > appreciated!
> > > > I
> > > > > > > will try and find the earlier postings on this topic. Thanks!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > From: emraware <emraware@>
> > > > > > > >To: [hidden email]
> > > > > > > >Sent: Thursday, 5 May 2011, 3:53
> > > > > > > >Subject: [eSens] Re: Radiation Shield Paints
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >Â
> > > > > > > >Sorry my misunderstanding-- your email mentioned:
> > > > > > > >"radiation shield paints that can block radiation from mobile
> > > > phones"
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >I meant to warn that 45 dB may not be enough for mobile phone
> > > > radiation.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > >For outside cellular towers and communications, though, it is
> weak
> > > > > > enough
> > > > > > > >that 45 dB is probably enough, if done properly.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >Just be aware that radiation shielding paints may spread
> > > electrical
> > > > > > > >fields. I suppose grounding might help, but some others on
> this
> > > > forum
> > > > > > > >seemed to mention things getting worse after they painted with
> > > > > > conductive
> > > > > > > >paint, even when they turned off the electricity.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >Personally I prefer something less permanent than paint, so
> that
> > > if
> > > > I
> > > > > > > >make a mistake, I can remove it.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >--- In [hidden email], Ole Alstrup <alstrup@> wrote:
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> My query was for reducing or blocking outside radiation from
> > > > cellular
> > > > > > > >> towers and communication.Ã, Are you saying that Y-shield
> > > > > > > >> paintings with a screening reduction between 43-45dB is not
> > > > > > > >> sufficient?Ã, There are some real life examples in the pdf
> > > > document
> > > > > > > >> at
> http://www.yshield.com/pdf/YSHIELD-EN-ShieldingPaints.pdf
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> From: emraware <emraware@>
> > > > > > > >> >To: [hidden email]
> > > > > > > >> >Sent: Wednesday, 4 May 2011, 2:56
> > > > > > > >> >Subject: [eSens] Re: Radiation Shield Paints
> > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > >> >Ã,Â
> > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > >> >I would think an air tube headset with long extension cord
> > > might
> > > > be a
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> >safer bet. (How would you paint your cell phone ?) Cell
> phone
> > > > > > > >> >radiation is quite strong locally and would probably easily
> > > > penetrate
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> >a 60 dB barrier.
> > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > >> >--- In [hidden email], Ole Alstrup <alstrup@>
> wrote:
> > > > > > > >> >>
> > > > > > > >> >> Hello Emil,
> > > > > > > >> >> Ãfâ?sÃ,Â
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> >> Thanks very much! I see this is available in the EU as
> well.
> > > > > > > >> >> Ãfâ?sÃ,Â
> > > > > > > >> >> Gratefully,
> > > > > > > >> >> Ãfâ?sÃ,Â
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> >> Ole
> > > > > > > >> >>
> > > > > > > >> >> From: Emil at Less EMF Inc <lessemf@>
> > > > > > > >> >> >To: [hidden email]
> > > > > > > >> >> >Sent: Tuesday, 3 May 2011, 15:49
> > > > > > > >> >> >Subject: Re: [eSens] Radiation Shield Paints
> > > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > > >> >> >Ãfâ?sÃ,Â
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> >> >Hello Ole,
> > > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > > >> >> >Yes, see http://www.lessemf.com/paint.html
> > > > > > > >> >> >We offer 2 RF shielding paints: CuPro-Cote and Y-Shield.
> > > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > > >> >> >Emil DeToffol
> > > > > > > >> >> >Less EMF Inc.
> > > > > > > >> >> >809 Madison Ave.
> > > > > > > >> >> >Albany NY 12208 USA
> > > > > > > >> >> >tel: +1-518-432-1550
> > > > > > > >> >> >www.lessemf.com
> > > > > > > >> >> >----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > >> >> >From: <alstrup@>
> > > > > > > >> >> >To: <[hidden email]>
> > > > > > > >> >> >Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 8:53 AM
> > > > > > > >> >> >Subject: [eSens] Radiation Shield Paints
> > > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > > >> >> >> Hi Folks,
> > > > > > > >> >> >>
> > > > > > > >> >> >> I need some leads/links to radiation shield paints
> that
> > > can
> > > > > > block
> > > > > > > >> >> >> radiation from mobile phones. I recall having read
> about
> > > the
> > > > > > > >> >> >> availability
> > > > > > > >> >> >> of these some years ago ie. used for blocking
> > > communication
> > > > in
> > > > > > > >> >> >> cinemas
> > > > > > > >> >> >> etc. They have to work across the mw spectrum to block
> > > GSM,
> > > > 3G
> > > > > > > >> >> >> and 4G.
> > > > > > > >> >> >>
> > > > > > > >> >> >> Thanks,
> > > > > > > >> >> >>
> > > > > > > >> >> >> Ole
> > > > > > > >> >> >>
> > > > > > > >> >> >>
> > > > > > > >> >> >>
> > > > > > > >> >> >> ------------------------------------
> > > > > > > >> >> >>
> > > > > > > >> >> >> Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > > > > >> >> >>
> > > > > > > >> >> >>
> > > > > > > >> >> >>
> > > > > > > >> >> >>
> > > > > > > >> >> >>
> > > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > > >> >>
> > > > > > > >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > > > >> >>
> > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ------------------------------------
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>  
>

>
> If it mainly buzzes only when the rod antenna inside
> the radio is perpendicular to the ground path, then
> there is certainly RF current going through that
> wire.
>
> A small magnetic field probe will tell if there is also
> 60Hz going through.  If so then there must be another
> path from the shield to ground, and the path may
> make a loop near some magnetic field source
> (like a power panel).
>
> If the other path can't be interrupted, then, if you
> are sure there is no risk of the shield ever becoming
> energized by a hot electric wire, try disconnecting
> your ground and see how you feel.
>
> If there is no 60Hz current, then the other path
> to ground may be capacitative only.  Again
> you might try disconnecting the ground if it's safe to.
>
> If the ground rod is outside your shield, and there
> is something like a noisy power line causing the
> buzz, the rod might help.  But the shield paint
> is probably not going to do a great job with
> those ~MHz frequencies.  In a case like this,
> adding some buried flashing (copper is best)
> connected to your ground rod might be a benefit,
> though it may not be worth the effort.  An RF
> grounding path should ideally be less than 8 times longer
> than the width of the grounding straps or braids.
> So 8' of 1' wide flashing connected directly to your
> shield and buried would be pretty good if the
> dirt is fairly conductive.  If your shield is bonded
> to a conductive floor then don't bother with RF
> grounding.
>
> On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 1:20 AM, kikkie2004 <kikkiehealth@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Hi Bill
> >
> > I was reading this and wanted to ask you:
> >
> > If I hold the AM radio to the earthing rod (going into the earth, that I've
> > grounded my faraday cage to) and it has a buzz, what does that mean?
> >
> > Thanks
> > K
> >
> > --- In [hidden email], Bill Bruno <wbruno@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Grounding to the outlet might not be good from the
> > > point of view of EMFs (it does add safety in the event
> > > of a hot wire touching the paint, especially if the wire is big enough so
> > > the breaker will trip).
> > >
> > > The outlet is connected to the power company at your
> > > panel (unless you've gone to an isolated ground system)
> > > so it has dirty power on it. There is a ground rod probably
> > > at the panel but that's not very low impedance at all so it
> > > doesn't get rid of all of the high frequencies (not even all
> > > the low frequencies probably).
> > >
> > > A painted wall has some some intrinsic capacitance, and
> > > could also have conductivity or capacitance to ground.
> > >
> > > Try holding your AM radio near the ground wire. If you
> > > pick up a buzz, or even if the radio stations suddenly are
> > > received at new frequencies, they you've created a ground
> > > path.
> > >
> > > A big choke in the system might help. If there is very good
> > > conductance to ground from the wall you can safely remove
> > > the ground wire. But usually to get it that good you have to
> > > install several ground rods 8' apart and have good soil.
> > >
> > > If there is nothing electrical that can possibly touch the paint,
> > > remove the wire and see if that feels better.
> > > You have to do something about the outlets and the wiring.
> > > Y-shield paint will not block dirty power frequencies.
> > > Maybe you can disconnect hot neutral and ground
> > > at the panel for that circuit. There still could be
> > > capacitance between those wires and other wires.
> > > Are all electronics unplugged at night?
> > > Bill
> > >
> > > On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 2:00 PM, Loni <loni326@> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Could this be why I can't sleep in my bedroom. I have the Y shield
> > paint
> > > > plus the window shielding Have the paint grounded by a metal strip that
> > goes
> > > > all the way around the room to the the outlet.
> > > >
> > > > But no cover on the outlets. Just seems like a little area to cause my
> > so
> > > > much pain????
> > > >
> > > > Loni
> > > >
> > > > --- On Thu, 5/5/11, Bill Bruno <wbruno@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > From: Bill Bruno <wbruno@>
> > > > Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Radiation Shield Paints
> > > > To: [hidden email]
> > > > Date: Thursday, May 5, 2011, 9:21 AM
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > What you don't want is a hole in the shield with a wire going through
> > the
> > > > hole.
> > > >
> > > > If you have an unshielded outlet there will be leakage.
> > > >
> > > > Ideally any holes should be less than 1/2 inch.
> > > >
> > > > The best way with outlets would be to use metal junction boxes
> > > > and compression fitting to metal conduits to a filter.
> > > >
> > > > They used to make metal covered outlet covers for outdoors.
> > > >
> > > > If the outlets are live, think safety first.
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 10:13 AM, chelseapaul1010
> > > > <pbarnes@>wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Cheers for the advice.
> > > > >
> > > > > One thing, when you say 'penetrations' do you mean plug sockets? Or
> > are
> > > > > they ok to be left uncovered? I wont have any electrical devices in
> > the
> > > > room
> > > > > at all...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In [hidden email], Bill Bruno <wbruno@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I agree with Emil. If there are any penetrations by wires you
> > > > > > need to have a filter right there grounded to the shield, with
> > > > > > no leaks in the shield. Small holes are OK but no penetrations
> > > > > > or long gaps or cracks.
> > > > > > Bill
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 10:04 AM, Emil at Less EMF Inc
> > > > > > <lessemf@>wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If you are making a complete enclosure,
> > > > > > > and all the shielding is grounded to the same ground,
> > > > > > > AND you don't have live electric wires INSIDE the shielded area,
> > > > > > > then the electric potential will be equal on all surfaces. You
> > will
> > > > > have no
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > electric field inside, regardless of voltage on the ground.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Emil
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > From: "chelseapaul1010" <pbarnes@>
> > > > > > > To: <[hidden email]>
> > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 6:54 AM
> > > > > > > Subject: [eSens] Re: Radiation Shield Paints
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > This is slightly worrying as I am currently in the process of
> > > > painting
> > > > > my
> > > > > > > bedroom! Is there anything that can be done to guard against the
> > > > spread
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > electrical fields in a painted room? I have already grounded the
> > > > paint,
> > > > > and
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > am covering the floor with aluminium insulating foil (under the
> > > > carpet)
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > prevent radiation from coming in from below. My window has
> > protective
> > > > > film
> > > > > > > on it and I am also buying some aluminium blinds for a bit of
> > extra
> > > > > > > protection.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Obvously I have not spent any length of time in the room yet as
> > it is
> > > > > not
> > > > > > > finished but I am hopeful it will give me an area of relative
> > calm
> > > > for
> > > > > when
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I'm asleep at least! Any extra advice would be welcome...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Paul
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In [hidden email], Ole Alstrup <alstrup@> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thanks for the clarification and the extra info, greatly
> > > > appreciated!
> > > > > I
> > > > > > > > will try and find the earlier postings on this topic. Thanks!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > From: emraware <emraware@>
> > > > > > > > >To: [hidden email]
> > > > > > > > >Sent: Thursday, 5 May 2011, 3:53
> > > > > > > > >Subject: [eSens] Re: Radiation Shield Paints
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >�
> > > > > > > > >Sorry my misunderstanding-- your email mentioned:
> > > > > > > > >"radiation shield paints that can block radiation from mobile
> > > > > phones"
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >I meant to warn that 45 dB may not be enough for mobile phone
> > > > > radiation.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >For outside cellular towers and communications, though, it is
> > weak
> > > > > > > enough
> > > > > > > > >that 45 dB is probably enough, if done properly.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >Just be aware that radiation shielding paints may spread
> > > > electrical
> > > > > > > > >fields. I suppose grounding might help, but some others on
> > this
> > > > > forum
> > > > > > > > >seemed to mention things getting worse after they painted with
> > > > > > > conductive
> > > > > > > > >paint, even when they turned off the electricity.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >Personally I prefer something less permanent than paint, so
> > that
> > > > if
> > > > > I
> > > > > > > > >make a mistake, I can remove it.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >--- In [hidden email], Ole Alstrup <alstrup@> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> My query was for reducing or blocking outside radiation from
> > > > > cellular
> > > > > > > > >> towers and communication.�,� Are you saying that Y-shield
> > > > > > > > >> paintings with a screening reduction between 43-45dB is not
> > > > > > > > >> sufficient?�,� There are some real life examples in the pdf
> > > > > document
> > > > > > > > >> at
> > http://www.yshield.com/pdf/YSHIELD-EN-ShieldingPaints.pdf
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> From: emraware <emraware@>
> > > > > > > > >> >To: [hidden email]
> > > > > > > > >> >Sent: Wednesday, 4 May 2011, 2:56
> > > > > > > > >> >Subject: [eSens] Re: Radiation Shield Paints
> > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > >> >�,�
> > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > >> >I would think an air tube headset with long extension cord
> > > > might
> > > > > be a
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> >safer bet. (How would you paint your cell phone ?) Cell
> > phone
> > > > > > > > >> >radiation is quite strong locally and would probably easily
> > > > > penetrate
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> >a 60 dB barrier.
> > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > >> >--- In [hidden email], Ole Alstrup <alstrup@>
> > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> >>
> > > > > > > > >> >> Hello Emil,
> > > > > > > > >> >> �f�?s�,�
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> >> Thanks very much! I see this is available in the EU as
> > well.
> > > > > > > > >> >> �f�?s�,�
> > > > > > > > >> >> Gratefully,
> > > > > > > > >> >> �f�?s�,�
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> >> Ole
> > > > > > > > >> >>
> > > > > > > > >> >> From: Emil at Less EMF Inc <lessemf@>
> > > > > > > > >> >> >To: [hidden email]
> > > > > > > > >> >> >Sent: Tuesday, 3 May 2011, 15:49
> > > > > > > > >> >> >Subject: Re: [eSens] Radiation Shield Paints
> > > > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > > > >> >> >�f�?s�,�
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> >> >Hello Ole,
> > > > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > > > >> >> >Yes, see http://www.lessemf.com/paint.html
> > > > > > > > >> >> >We offer 2 RF shielding paints: CuPro-Cote and Y-Shield.
> > > > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > > > >> >> >Emil DeToffol
> > > > > > > > >> >> >Less EMF Inc.
> > > > > > > > >> >> >809 Madison Ave.
> > > > > > > > >> >> >Albany NY 12208 USA
> > > > > > > > >> >> >tel: +1-518-432-1550
> > > > > > > > >> >> >www.lessemf.com
> > > > > > > > >> >> >----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > >> >> >From: <alstrup@>
> > > > > > > > >> >> >To: <[hidden email]>
> > > > > > > > >> >> >Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 8:53 AM
> > > > > > > > >> >> >Subject: [eSens] Radiation Shield Paints
> > > > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > > > >> >> >> Hi Folks,
> > > > > > > > >> >> >>
> > > > > > > > >> >> >> I need some leads/links to radiation shield paints
> > that
> > > > can
> > > > > > > block
> > > > > > > > >> >> >> radiation from mobile phones. I recall having read
> > about
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > >> >> >> availability
> > > > > > > > >> >> >> of these some years ago ie. used for blocking
> > > > communication
> > > > > in
> > > > > > > > >> >> >> cinemas
> > > > > > > > >> >> >> etc. They have to work across the mw spectrum to block
> > > > GSM,
> > > > > 3G
> > > > > > > > >> >> >> and 4G.
> > > > > > > > >> >> >>
> > > > > > > > >> >> >> Thanks,
> > > > > > > > >> >> >>
> > > > > > > > >> >> >> Ole
> > > > > > > > >> >> >>
> > > > > > > > >> >> >>
> > > > > > > > >> >> >>
> > > > > > > > >> >> >> ------------------------------------
> > > > > > > > >> >> >>
> > > > > > > > >> >> >> Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > > > > > >> >> >>
> > > > > > > > >> >> >>
> > > > > > > > >> >> >>
> > > > > > > > >> >> >>
> > > > > > > > >> >> >>
> > > > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > > > >> >>
> > > > > > > > >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > > > > >> >>
> > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ------------------------------------
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> >  
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

>
>
>
> Hi Bill
> Thanks!
>
> Trifield meter shows just more than 1 mG at the rod.
>
> AM radio buzzes around the rod doens't matter how I turn it. Although I see
> this morning it buzzes in the garden anyway, just much louder around the
> rod.
>
> Had it ungrounded when I was building the faraday cage (with Aluminium
> foil) and couldn't stand being in the room until I grounded it to two
> earthing spikes. So definitely better grounded.
>
> Can't trip the switch to the room as there are other rooms on the same
> circuit.
>
> Thanks again.
>
> K
>
> --- In [hidden email], Bill Bruno <wbruno@...> wrote:
> >
> > If it mainly buzzes only when the rod antenna inside
> > the radio is perpendicular to the ground path, then
> > there is certainly RF current going through that
> > wire.
> >
> > A small magnetic field probe will tell if there is also
> > 60Hz going through. If so then there must be another
> > path from the shield to ground, and the path may
> > make a loop near some magnetic field source
> > (like a power panel).
> >
> > If the other path can't be interrupted, then, if you
> > are sure there is no risk of the shield ever becoming
> > energized by a hot electric wire, try disconnecting
> > your ground and see how you feel.
> >
> > If there is no 60Hz current, then the other path
> > to ground may be capacitative only. Again
> > you might try disconnecting the ground if it's safe to.
> >
> > If the ground rod is outside your shield, and there
> > is something like a noisy power line causing the
> > buzz, the rod might help. But the shield paint
> > is probably not going to do a great job with
> > those ~MHz frequencies. In a case like this,
> > adding some buried flashing (copper is best)
> > connected to your ground rod might be a benefit,
> > though it may not be worth the effort. An RF
> > grounding path should ideally be less than 8 times longer
> > than the width of the grounding straps or braids.
> > So 8' of 1' wide flashing connected directly to your
> > shield and buried would be pretty good if the
> > dirt is fairly conductive. If your shield is bonded
> > to a conductive floor then don't bother with RF
> > grounding.
> >
> > On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 1:20 AM, kikkie2004 <kikkiehealth@...> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi Bill
> > >
> > > I was reading this and wanted to ask you:
> > >
> > > If I hold the AM radio to the earthing rod (going into the earth, that
> I've
> > > grounded my faraday cage to) and it has a buzz, what does that mean?
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > K
> > >
> > > --- In [hidden email], Bill Bruno <wbruno@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Grounding to the outlet might not be good from the
> > > > point of view of EMFs (it does add safety in the event
> > > > of a hot wire touching the paint, especially if the wire is big
> enough so
> > > > the breaker will trip).
> > > >
> > > > The outlet is connected to the power company at your
> > > > panel (unless you've gone to an isolated ground system)
> > > > so it has dirty power on it. There is a ground rod probably
> > > > at the panel but that's not very low impedance at all so it
> > > > doesn't get rid of all of the high frequencies (not even all
> > > > the low frequencies probably).
> > > >
> > > > A painted wall has some some intrinsic capacitance, and
> > > > could also have conductivity or capacitance to ground.
> > > >
> > > > Try holding your AM radio near the ground wire. If you
> > > > pick up a buzz, or even if the radio stations suddenly are
> > > > received at new frequencies, they you've created a ground
> > > > path.
> > > >
> > > > A big choke in the system might help. If there is very good
> > > > conductance to ground from the wall you can safely remove
> > > > the ground wire. But usually to get it that good you have to
> > > > install several ground rods 8' apart and have good soil.
> > > >
> > > > If there is nothing electrical that can possibly touch the paint,
> > > > remove the wire and see if that feels better.
> > > > You have to do something about the outlets and the wiring.
> > > > Y-shield paint will not block dirty power frequencies.
> > > > Maybe you can disconnect hot neutral and ground
> > > > at the panel for that circuit. There still could be
> > > > capacitance between those wires and other wires.
> > > > Are all electronics unplugged at night?
> > > > Bill
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 2:00 PM, Loni <loni326@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Could this be why I can't sleep in my bedroom. I have the Y shield
> > > paint
> > > > > plus the window shielding Have the paint grounded by a metal strip
> that
> > > goes
> > > > > all the way around the room to the the outlet.
> > > > >
> > > > > But no cover on the outlets. Just seems like a little area to cause
> my
> > > so
> > > > > much pain????
> > > > >
> > > > > Loni
> > > > >
> > > > > --- On Thu, 5/5/11, Bill Bruno <wbruno@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > From: Bill Bruno <wbruno@>
> > > > > Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Radiation Shield Paints
> > > > > To: [hidden email]
> > > > > Date: Thursday, May 5, 2011, 9:21 AM
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > What you don't want is a hole in the shield with a wire going
> through
> > > the
> > > > > hole.
> > > > >
> > > > > If you have an unshielded outlet there will be leakage.
> > > > >
> > > > > Ideally any holes should be less than 1/2 inch.
> > > > >
> > > > > The best way with outlets would be to use metal junction boxes
> > > > > and compression fitting to metal conduits to a filter.
> > > > >
> > > > > They used to make metal covered outlet covers for outdoors.
> > > > >
> > > > > If the outlets are live, think safety first.
> > > > >
> > > > > On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 10:13 AM, chelseapaul1010
> > > > > <pbarnes@>wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Cheers for the advice.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > One thing, when you say 'penetrations' do you mean plug sockets?
> Or
> > > are
> > > > > > they ok to be left uncovered? I wont have any electrical devices
> in
> > > the
> > > > > room
> > > > > > at all...
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In [hidden email], Bill Bruno <wbruno@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I agree with Emil. If there are any penetrations by wires you
> > > > > > > need to have a filter right there grounded to the shield, with
> > > > > > > no leaks in the shield. Small holes are OK but no penetrations
> > > > > > > or long gaps or cracks.
> > > > > > > Bill
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 10:04 AM, Emil at Less EMF Inc
> > > > > > > <lessemf@>wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > If you are making a complete enclosure,
> > > > > > > > and all the shielding is grounded to the same ground,
> > > > > > > > AND you don't have live electric wires INSIDE the shielded
> area,
> > > > > > > > then the electric potential will be equal on all surfaces.
> You
> > > will
> > > > > > have no
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > electric field inside, regardless of voltage on the ground.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Emil
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > From: "chelseapaul1010" <pbarnes@>
> > > > > > > > To: <[hidden email]>
> > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 6:54 AM
> > > > > > > > Subject: [eSens] Re: Radiation Shield Paints
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > This is slightly worrying as I am currently in the process of
> > > > > painting
> > > > > > my
> > > > > > > > bedroom! Is there anything that can be done to guard against
> the
> > > > > spread
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > electrical fields in a painted room? I have already grounded
> the
> > > > > paint,
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > am covering the floor with aluminium insulating foil (under
> the
> > > > > carpet)
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > prevent radiation from coming in from below. My window has
> > > protective
> > > > > > film
> > > > > > > > on it and I am also buying some aluminium blinds for a bit of
> > > extra
> > > > > > > > protection.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Obvously I have not spent any length of time in the room yet
> as
> > > it is
> > > > > > not
> > > > > > > > finished but I am hopeful it will give me an area of relative
> > > calm
> > > > > for
> > > > > > when
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I'm asleep at least! Any extra advice would be welcome...
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Paul
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- In [hidden email], Ole Alstrup <alstrup@> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Thanks for the clarification and the extra info, greatly
> > > > > appreciated!
> > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > > will try and find the earlier postings on this topic.
> Thanks!
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > From: emraware <emraware@>
> > > > > > > > > >To: [hidden email]
> > > > > > > > > >Sent: Thursday, 5 May 2011, 3:53
> > > > > > > > > >Subject: [eSens] Re: Radiation Shield Paints
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >�
>
> > > > > > > > > >Sorry my misunderstanding-- your email mentioned:
> > > > > > > > > >"radiation shield paints that can block radiation from
> mobile
> > > > > > phones"
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >I meant to warn that 45 dB may not be enough for mobile
> phone
> > > > > > radiation.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >For outside cellular towers and communications, though, it
> is
> > > weak
> > > > > > > > enough
> > > > > > > > > >that 45 dB is probably enough, if done properly.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >Just be aware that radiation shielding paints may spread
> > > > > electrical
> > > > > > > > > >fields. I suppose grounding might help, but some others on
> > > this
> > > > > > forum
> > > > > > > > > >seemed to mention things getting worse after they painted
> with
> > > > > > > > conductive
> > > > > > > > > >paint, even when they turned off the electricity.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >Personally I prefer something less permanent than paint,
> so
> > > that
> > > > > if
> > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > > >make a mistake, I can remove it.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >--- In [hidden email], Ole Alstrup <alstrup@>
> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> My query was for reducing or blocking outside radiation
> from
> > > > > > cellular
> > > > > > > > > >> towers and communication.�,� Are you saying that
> Y-shield
>
> > > > > > > > > >> paintings with a screening reduction between 43-45dB is
> not
> > > > > > > > > >> sufficient?�,� There are some real life examples in
> the pdf
>
> > > > > > document
> > > > > > > > > >> at
> > > http://www.yshield.com/pdf/YSHIELD-EN-ShieldingPaints.pdf
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> From: emraware <emraware@>
> > > > > > > > > >> >To: [hidden email]
> > > > > > > > > >> >Sent: Wednesday, 4 May 2011, 2:56
> > > > > > > > > >> >Subject: [eSens] Re: Radiation Shield Paints
> > > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > > >> >�,�
>
> > > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > > >> >I would think an air tube headset with long extension
> cord
> > > > > might
> > > > > > be a
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >> >safer bet. (How would you paint your cell phone ?) Cell
> > > phone
> > > > > > > > > >> >radiation is quite strong locally and would probably
> easily
> > > > > > penetrate
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >> >a 60 dB barrier.
> > > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > > >> >--- In [hidden email], Ole Alstrup <alstrup@>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >> >>
> > > > > > > > > >> >> Hello Emil,
> > > > > > > > > >> >> �f�?s�,�
>
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >> >> Thanks very much! I see this is available in the EU
> as
> > > well.
> > > > > > > > > >> >> �f�?s�,�
> > > > > > > > > >> >> Gratefully,
> > > > > > > > > >> >> �f�?s�,�
>
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >> >> Ole
> > > > > > > > > >> >>
> > > > > > > > > >> >> From: Emil at Less EMF Inc <lessemf@>
> > > > > > > > > >> >> >To: [hidden email]
> > > > > > > > > >> >> >Sent: Tuesday, 3 May 2011, 15:49
> > > > > > > > > >> >> >Subject: Re: [eSens] Radiation Shield Paints
> > > > > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > > > > >> >> >�f�?s�,�
>
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >> >> >Hello Ole,
> > > > > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > > > > >> >> >Yes, see http://www.lessemf.com/paint.html
> > > > > > > > > >> >> >We offer 2 RF shielding paints: CuPro-Cote and
> Y-Shield.
> > > > > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > > > > >> >> >Emil DeToffol
> > > > > > > > > >> >> >Less EMF Inc.
> > > > > > > > > >> >> >809 Madison Ave.
> > > > > > > > > >> >> >Albany NY 12208 USA
> > > > > > > > > >> >> >tel: +1-518-432-1550
> > > > > > > > > >> >> >www.lessemf.com
> > > > > > > > > >> >> >----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > > >> >> >From: <alstrup@>
> > > > > > > > > >> >> >To: <[hidden email]>
> > > > > > > > > >> >> >Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 8:53 AM
> > > > > > > > > >> >> >Subject: [eSens] Radiation Shield Paints
> > > > > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > > > > >> >> >> Hi Folks,
> > > > > > > > > >> >> >>
> > > > > > > > > >> >> >> I need some leads/links to radiation shield paints
> > > that
> > > > > can
> > > > > > > > block
> > > > > > > > > >> >> >> radiation from mobile phones. I recall having read
> > > about
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > >> >> >> availability
> > > > > > > > > >> >> >> of these some years ago ie. used for blocking
> > > > > communication
> > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > >> >> >> cinemas
> > > > > > > > > >> >> >> etc. They have to work across the mw spectrum to
> block
> > > > > GSM,
> > > > > > 3G
> > > > > > > > > >> >> >> and 4G.
> > > > > > > > > >> >> >>
> > > > > > > > > >> >> >> Thanks,
> > > > > > > > > >> >> >>
> > > > > > > > > >> >> >> Ole
> > > > > > > > > >> >> >>
> > > > > > > > > >> >> >>
> > > > > > > > > >> >> >>
> > > > > > > > > >> >> >> ------------------------------------
> > > > > > > > > >> >> >>
> > > > > > > > > >> >> >> Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > > > > > > >> >> >>
> > > > > > > > > >> >> >>
> > > > > > > > > >> >> >>
> > > > > > > > > >> >> >>
> > > > > > > > > >> >> >>
> > > > > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > > > > >> >>
> > > > > > > > > >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > > > > > >> >>
> > > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ------------------------------------
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >
> > > > > ------------------------------------
> > > > >
> > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>  
>

> See if there are other hot spots of magnetic field,
> maybe you can find another ground connection
> or source of the current.
>
> If the orientation of the radio doesn't matter, it could
> be capacitative coupling (voltage rather than current)
> but if you are seeing a magnetic field there must be
> current.
>
> I should have added the idea of putting a choke
> on your ground wire.  But if you feel better with
> the ground, you probably don't want a choke
> (at least not there).
>
> If the ground were making things worse I'd recommend
> a choke of about 12 to 15 turns through a ferrite.
> For a safety ground the wire must be thick enough
> to pass as much current as the breaker allows
> (it's a little complicated, but if you follow the code
> of 14 ga for 15 amps you're safe... a smaller wire
> should still be ok at 15 amps but it will take time to
> trip at that current... the breaker trips immediately only
> with a much larger current).
> (More turns works better, but tf you do a huge number of turns you could
> make it so the breaker won't trip.)
>
> Note a choke blocks RF current but not RF voltage,
> so it may not be that helpful for something you're
> touching like a computer keyboard.
>
> The main choke should be a low frequency ferrite.
> I've gotten some from Newark but the really big ones
> I've gotten surplus.  You could also add a high frequency
> choke (can have less turns) from a harder ferrite.
>
> RadioShack sells rectangular split ferrites that are
> big enough to do several turns around.  You
> can also get split high frequency ferrites there.
> LessEMF has them too, but not sure what material they
> are.  I think I read that for low frequencies a split
> ferrite is not as good.  Definitely a bar is not as
> good as a ring.
>
> If you put a choke on a wire carrying 5 amps or so of AC
> current the ferrite will saturate and it won't work.  Unless
> you wrap the hot and neutral together... then it's a common
> mode choke.  The currents cancel so it doesn't saturate.
>
>
>
> On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 1:59 AM, kikkie2004 <[hidden email]>wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Bill
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Trifield meter shows just more than 1 mG at the rod.
>>
>> AM radio buzzes around the rod doens't matter how I turn it. Although I
>> see this morning it buzzes in the garden anyway, just much louder around the
>> rod.
>>
>> Had it ungrounded when I was building the faraday cage (with Aluminium
>> foil) and couldn't stand being in the room until I grounded it to two
>> earthing spikes. So definitely better grounded.
>>
>> Can't trip the switch to the room as there are other rooms on the same
>> circuit.
>>
>> Thanks again.
>>
>> K
>>
>> --- In [hidden email], Bill Bruno <wbruno@...> wrote:
>> >
>> > If it mainly buzzes only when the rod antenna inside
>> > the radio is perpendicular to the ground path, then
>> > there is certainly RF current going through that
>> > wire.
>> >
>> > A small magnetic field probe will tell if there is also
>> > 60Hz going through. If so then there must be another
>> > path from the shield to ground, and the path may
>> > make a loop near some magnetic field source
>> > (like a power panel).
>> >
>> > If the other path can't be interrupted, then, if you
>> > are sure there is no risk of the shield ever becoming
>> > energized by a hot electric wire, try disconnecting
>> > your ground and see how you feel.
>> >
>> > If there is no 60Hz current, then the other path
>> > to ground may be capacitative only. Again
>> > you might try disconnecting the ground if it's safe to.
>> >
>> > If the ground rod is outside your shield, and there
>> > is something like a noisy power line causing the
>> > buzz, the rod might help. But the shield paint
>> > is probably not going to do a great job with
>> > those ~MHz frequencies. In a case like this,
>> > adding some buried flashing (copper is best)
>> > connected to your ground rod might be a benefit,
>> > though it may not be worth the effort. An RF
>> > grounding path should ideally be less than 8 times longer
>> > than the width of the grounding straps or braids.
>> > So 8' of 1' wide flashing connected directly to your
>> > shield and buried would be pretty good if the
>> > dirt is fairly conductive. If your shield is bonded
>> > to a conductive floor then don't bother with RF
>> > grounding.
>> >
>> > On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 1:20 AM, kikkie2004 <kikkiehealth@...> wrote:
>> >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Hi Bill
>> > >
>> > > I was reading this and wanted to ask you:
>> > >
>> > > If I hold the AM radio to the earthing rod (going into the earth, that
>> I've
>> > > grounded my faraday cage to) and it has a buzz, what does that mean?
>> > >
>> > > Thanks
>> > > K
>> > >
>> > > --- In [hidden email], Bill Bruno <wbruno@> wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > Grounding to the outlet might not be good from the
>> > > > point of view of EMFs (it does add safety in the event
>> > > > of a hot wire touching the paint, especially if the wire is big
>> enough so
>> > > > the breaker will trip).
>> > > >
>> > > > The outlet is connected to the power company at your
>> > > > panel (unless you've gone to an isolated ground system)
>> > > > so it has dirty power on it. There is a ground rod probably
>> > > > at the panel but that's not very low impedance at all so it
>> > > > doesn't get rid of all of the high frequencies (not even all
>> > > > the low frequencies probably).
>> > > >
>> > > > A painted wall has some some intrinsic capacitance, and
>> > > > could also have conductivity or capacitance to ground.
>> > > >
>> > > > Try holding your AM radio near the ground wire. If you
>> > > > pick up a buzz, or even if the radio stations suddenly are
>> > > > received at new frequencies, they you've created a ground
>> > > > path.
>> > > >
>> > > > A big choke in the system might help. If there is very good
>> > > > conductance to ground from the wall you can safely remove
>> > > > the ground wire. But usually to get it that good you have to
>> > > > install several ground rods 8' apart and have good soil.
>> > > >
>> > > > If there is nothing electrical that can possibly touch the paint,
>> > > > remove the wire and see if that feels better.
>> > > > You have to do something about the outlets and the wiring.
>> > > > Y-shield paint will not block dirty power frequencies.
>> > > > Maybe you can disconnect hot neutral and ground
>> > > > at the panel for that circuit. There still could be
>> > > > capacitance between those wires and other wires.
>> > > > Are all electronics unplugged at night?
>> > > > Bill
>> > > >
>> > > > On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 2:00 PM, Loni <loni326@> wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Could this be why I can't sleep in my bedroom. I have the Y shield
>> > > paint
>> > > > > plus the window shielding Have the paint grounded by a metal strip
>> that
>> > > goes
>> > > > > all the way around the room to the the outlet.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > But no cover on the outlets. Just seems like a little area to
>> cause my
>> > > so
>> > > > > much pain????
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Loni
>> > > > >
>> > > > > --- On Thu, 5/5/11, Bill Bruno <wbruno@> wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > From: Bill Bruno <wbruno@>
>> > > > > Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Radiation Shield Paints
>> > > > > To: [hidden email]
>> > > > > Date: Thursday, May 5, 2011, 9:21 AM
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > What you don't want is a hole in the shield with a wire going
>> through
>> > > the
>> > > > > hole.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > If you have an unshielded outlet there will be leakage.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Ideally any holes should be less than 1/2 inch.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > The best way with outlets would be to use metal junction boxes
>> > > > > and compression fitting to metal conduits to a filter.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > They used to make metal covered outlet covers for outdoors.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > If the outlets are live, think safety first.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 10:13 AM, chelseapaul1010
>> > > > > <pbarnes@>wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Cheers for the advice.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > One thing, when you say 'penetrations' do you mean plug sockets?
>> Or
>> > > are
>> > > > > > they ok to be left uncovered? I wont have any electrical devices
>> in
>> > > the
>> > > > > room
>> > > > > > at all...
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > --- In [hidden email], Bill Bruno <wbruno@> wrote:
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > I agree with Emil. If there are any penetrations by wires you
>> > > > > > > need to have a filter right there grounded to the shield, with
>> > > > > > > no leaks in the shield. Small holes are OK but no penetrations
>> > > > > > > or long gaps or cracks.
>> > > > > > > Bill
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 10:04 AM, Emil at Less EMF Inc
>> > > > > > > <lessemf@>wrote:
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > If you are making a complete enclosure,
>> > > > > > > > and all the shielding is grounded to the same ground,
>> > > > > > > > AND you don't have live electric wires INSIDE the shielded
>> area,
>> > > > > > > > then the electric potential will be equal on all surfaces.
>> You
>> > > will
>> > > > > > have no
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > electric field inside, regardless of voltage on the ground.
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > Emil
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
>> > > > > > > > From: "chelseapaul1010" <pbarnes@>
>> > > > > > > > To: <[hidden email]>
>> > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 6:54 AM
>> > > > > > > > Subject: [eSens] Re: Radiation Shield Paints
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > This is slightly worrying as I am currently in the process
>> of
>> > > > > painting
>> > > > > > my
>> > > > > > > > bedroom! Is there anything that can be done to guard against
>> the
>> > > > > spread
>> > > > > > of
>> > > > > > > > electrical fields in a painted room? I have already grounded
>> the
>> > > > > paint,
>> > > > > > and
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > am covering the floor with aluminium insulating foil (under
>> the
>> > > > > carpet)
>> > > > > > to
>> > > > > > > > prevent radiation from coming in from below. My window has
>> > > protective
>> > > > > > film
>> > > > > > > > on it and I am also buying some aluminium blinds for a bit
>> of
>> > > extra
>> > > > > > > > protection.
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > Obvously I have not spent any length of time in the room yet
>> as
>> > > it is
>> > > > > > not
>> > > > > > > > finished but I am hopeful it will give me an area of
>> relative
>> > > calm
>> > > > > for
>> > > > > > when
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > I'm asleep at least! Any extra advice would be welcome...
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > Paul
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > --- In [hidden email], Ole Alstrup <alstrup@> wrote:
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > Thanks for the clarification and the extra info, greatly
>> > > > > appreciated!
>> > > > > > I
>> > > > > > > > > will try and find the earlier postings on this topic.
>> Thanks!
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > From: emraware <emraware@>
>> > > > > > > > > >To: [hidden email]
>> > > > > > > > > >Sent: Thursday, 5 May 2011, 3:53
>> > > > > > > > > >Subject: [eSens] Re: Radiation Shield Paints
>> > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >�
>>
>> > > > > > > > > >Sorry my misunderstanding-- your email mentioned:
>> > > > > > > > > >"radiation shield paints that can block radiation from
>> mobile
>> > > > > > phones"
>> > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >I meant to warn that 45 dB may not be enough for mobile
>> phone
>> > > > > > radiation.
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >For outside cellular towers and communications, though,
>> it is
>> > > weak
>> > > > > > > > enough
>> > > > > > > > > >that 45 dB is probably enough, if done properly.
>> > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >Just be aware that radiation shielding paints may spread
>> > > > > electrical
>> > > > > > > > > >fields. I suppose grounding might help, but some others
>> on
>> > > this
>> > > > > > forum
>> > > > > > > > > >seemed to mention things getting worse after they painted
>> with
>> > > > > > > > conductive
>> > > > > > > > > >paint, even when they turned off the electricity.
>> > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >Personally I prefer something less permanent than paint,
>> so
>> > > that
>> > > > > if
>> > > > > > I
>> > > > > > > > > >make a mistake, I can remove it.
>> > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >--- In [hidden email], Ole Alstrup <alstrup@>
>> wrote:
>> > > > > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > > > > >> My query was for reducing or blocking outside radiation
>> from
>> > > > > > cellular
>> > > > > > > > > >> towers and communication.�,� Are you saying that
>> Y-shield
>>
>> > > > > > > > > >> paintings with a screening reduction between 43-45dB is
>> not
>> > > > > > > > > >> sufficient?�,� There are some real life examples in
>> the pdf
>>
>> > > > > > document
>> > > > > > > > > >> at
>> > > http://www.yshield.com/pdf/YSHIELD-EN-ShieldingPaints.pdf
>> > > > > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > > > > >> From: emraware <emraware@>
>> > > > > > > > > >> >To: [hidden email]
>> > > > > > > > > >> >Sent: Wednesday, 4 May 2011, 2:56
>> > > > > > > > > >> >Subject: [eSens] Re: Radiation Shield Paints
>> > > > > > > > > >> >
>> > > > > > > > > >> >
>> > > > > > > > > >> >�,�
>>
>> > > > > > > > > >> >
>> > > > > > > > > >> >I would think an air tube headset with long extension
>> cord
>> > > > > might
>> > > > > > be a
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> >safer bet. (How would you paint your cell phone ?)
>> Cell
>> > > phone
>> > > > > > > > > >> >radiation is quite strong locally and would probably
>> easily
>> > > > > > penetrate
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> >a 60 dB barrier.
>> > > > > > > > > >> >
>> > > > > > > > > >> >--- In [hidden email], Ole Alstrup <alstrup@>
>> > > wrote:
>> > > > > > > > > >> >>
>> > > > > > > > > >> >> Hello Emil,
>> > > > > > > > > >> >> �f�?s�,�
>>
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> >> Thanks very much! I see this is available in the EU
>> as
>> > > well.
>> > > > > > > > > >> >> �f�?s�,�
>> > > > > > > > > >> >> Gratefully,
>> > > > > > > > > >> >> �f�?s�,�
>>
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> >> Ole
>> > > > > > > > > >> >>
>> > > > > > > > > >> >> From: Emil at Less EMF Inc <lessemf@>
>> > > > > > > > > >> >> >To: [hidden email]
>> > > > > > > > > >> >> >Sent: Tuesday, 3 May 2011, 15:49
>> > > > > > > > > >> >> >Subject: Re: [eSens] Radiation Shield Paints
>> > > > > > > > > >> >> >
>> > > > > > > > > >> >> >
>> > > > > > > > > >> >> >�f�?s�,�
>>
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >> >> >Hello Ole,
>> > > > > > > > > >> >> >
>> > > > > > > > > >> >> >Yes, see http://www.lessemf.com/paint.html
>> > > > > > > > > >> >> >We offer 2 RF shielding paints: CuPro-Cote and
>> Y-Shield.
>> > > > > > > > > >> >> >
>> > > > > > > > > >> >> >Emil DeToffol
>> > > > > > > > > >> >> >Less EMF Inc.
>> > > > > > > > > >> >> >809 Madison Ave.
>> > > > > > > > > >> >> >Albany NY 12208 USA
>> > > > > > > > > >> >> >tel: +1-518-432-1550
>> > > > > > > > > >> >> >www.lessemf.com
>> > > > > > > > > >> >> >----- Original Message -----
>> > > > > > > > > >> >> >From: <alstrup@>
>> > > > > > > > > >> >> >To: <[hidden email]>
>> > > > > > > > > >> >> >Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 8:53 AM
>> > > > > > > > > >> >> >Subject: [eSens] Radiation Shield Paints
>> > > > > > > > > >> >> >
>> > > > > > > > > >> >> >> Hi Folks,
>> > > > > > > > > >> >> >>
>> > > > > > > > > >> >> >> I need some leads/links to radiation shield
>> paints
>> > > that
>> > > > > can
>> > > > > > > > block
>> > > > > > > > > >> >> >> radiation from mobile phones. I recall having
>> read
>> > > about
>> > > > > the
>> > > > > > > > > >> >> >> availability
>> > > > > > > > > >> >> >> of these some years ago ie. used for blocking
>> > > > > communication
>> > > > > > in
>> > > > > > > > > >> >> >> cinemas
>> > > > > > > > > >> >> >> etc. They have to work across the mw spectrum to
>> block
>> > > > > GSM,
>> > > > > > 3G
>> > > > > > > > > >> >> >> and 4G.
>> > > > > > > > > >> >> >>
>> > > > > > > > > >> >> >> Thanks,
>> > > > > > > > > >> >> >>
>> > > > > > > > > >> >> >> Ole
>> > > > > > > > > >> >> >>
>> > > > > > > > > >> >> >>
>> > > > > > > > > >> >> >>
>> > > > > > > > > >> >> >> ------------------------------------
>> > > > > > > > > >> >> >>
>> > > > > > > > > >> >> >> Yahoo! Groups Links
>> > > > > > > > > >> >> >>
>> > > > > > > > > >> >> >>
>> > > > > > > > > >> >> >>
>> > > > > > > > > >> >> >>
>> > > > > > > > > >> >> >>
>> > > > > > > > > >> >> >
>> > > > > > > > > >> >> >
>> > > > > > > > > >> >> >
>> > > > > > > > > >> >> >
>> > > > > > > > > >> >> >
>> > > > > > > > > >> >>
>> > > > > > > > > >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been
>> removed]
>> > > > > > > > > >> >>
>> > > > > > > > > >> >
>> > > > > > > > > >> >
>> > > > > > > > > >> >
>> > > > > > > > > >> >
>> > > > > > > > > >> >
>> > > > > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > > > > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> > > > > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > ------------------------------------
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> > > > >
>> > > > > ------------------------------------
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
>> > > > >
>> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> >
>>
>>  
>>
>
>

>
> See if there are other hot spots of magnetic field,
> maybe you can find another ground connection
> or source of the current.
>
> If the orientation of the radio doesn't matter, it could
> be capacitative coupling (voltage rather than current)
> but if you are seeing a magnetic field there must be
> current.
>
> I should have added the idea of putting a choke
> on your ground wire.  But if you feel better with
> the ground, you probably don't want a choke
> (at least not there).
>
> If the ground were making things worse I'd recommend
> a choke of about 12 to 15 turns through a ferrite.
> For a safety ground the wire must be thick enough
> to pass as much current as the breaker allows
> (it's a little complicated, but if you follow the code
> of 14 ga for 15 amps you're safe... a smaller wire
> should still be ok at 15 amps but it will take time to
> trip at that current... the breaker trips immediately only
> with a much larger current).
> (More turns works better, but tf you do a huge number of turns you could
> make it so the breaker won't trip.)
>
> Note a choke blocks RF current but not RF voltage,
> so it may not be that helpful for something you're
> touching like a computer keyboard.
>
> The main choke should be a low frequency ferrite.
> I've gotten some from Newark but the really big ones
> I've gotten surplus.  You could also add a high frequency
> choke (can have less turns) from a harder ferrite.
>
> RadioShack sells rectangular split ferrites that are
> big enough to do several turns around.  You
> can also get split high frequency ferrites there.
> LessEMF has them too, but not sure what material they
> are.  I think I read that for low frequencies a split
> ferrite is not as good.  Definitely a bar is not as
> good as a ring.
>
> If you put a choke on a wire carrying 5 amps or so of AC
> current the ferrite will saturate and it won't work.  Unless
> you wrap the hot and neutral together... then it's a common
> mode choke.  The currents cancel so it doesn't saturate.
>
>
> On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 1:59 AM, kikkie2004 <kikkiehealth@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi Bill
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Trifield meter shows just more than 1 mG at the rod.
> >
> > AM radio buzzes around the rod doens't matter how I turn it. Although I see
> > this morning it buzzes in the garden anyway, just much louder around the
> > rod.
> >
> > Had it ungrounded when I was building the faraday cage (with Aluminium
> > foil) and couldn't stand being in the room until I grounded it to two
> > earthing spikes. So definitely better grounded.
> >
> > Can't trip the switch to the room as there are other rooms on the same
> > circuit.
> >
> > Thanks again.
> >
> > K
> >
> > --- In [hidden email], Bill Bruno <wbruno@> wrote:
> > >
> > > If it mainly buzzes only when the rod antenna inside
> > > the radio is perpendicular to the ground path, then
> > > there is certainly RF current going through that
> > > wire.
> > >
> > > A small magnetic field probe will tell if there is also
> > > 60Hz going through. If so then there must be another
> > > path from the shield to ground, and the path may
> > > make a loop near some magnetic field source
> > > (like a power panel).
> > >
> > > If the other path can't be interrupted, then, if you
> > > are sure there is no risk of the shield ever becoming
> > > energized by a hot electric wire, try disconnecting
> > > your ground and see how you feel.
> > >
> > > If there is no 60Hz current, then the other path
> > > to ground may be capacitative only. Again
> > > you might try disconnecting the ground if it's safe to.
> > >
> > > If the ground rod is outside your shield, and there
> > > is something like a noisy power line causing the
> > > buzz, the rod might help. But the shield paint
> > > is probably not going to do a great job with
> > > those ~MHz frequencies. In a case like this,
> > > adding some buried flashing (copper is best)
> > > connected to your ground rod might be a benefit,
> > > though it may not be worth the effort. An RF
> > > grounding path should ideally be less than 8 times longer
> > > than the width of the grounding straps or braids.
> > > So 8' of 1' wide flashing connected directly to your
> > > shield and buried would be pretty good if the
> > > dirt is fairly conductive. If your shield is bonded
> > > to a conductive floor then don't bother with RF
> > > grounding.
> > >
> > > On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 1:20 AM, kikkie2004 <kikkiehealth@> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hi Bill
> > > >
> > > > I was reading this and wanted to ask you:
> > > >
> > > > If I hold the AM radio to the earthing rod (going into the earth, that
> > I've
> > > > grounded my faraday cage to) and it has a buzz, what does that mean?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks
> > > > K
> > > >
> > > > --- In [hidden email], Bill Bruno <wbruno@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Grounding to the outlet might not be good from the
> > > > > point of view of EMFs (it does add safety in the event
> > > > > of a hot wire touching the paint, especially if the wire is big
> > enough so
> > > > > the breaker will trip).
> > > > >
> > > > > The outlet is connected to the power company at your
> > > > > panel (unless you've gone to an isolated ground system)
> > > > > so it has dirty power on it. There is a ground rod probably
> > > > > at the panel but that's not very low impedance at all so it
> > > > > doesn't get rid of all of the high frequencies (not even all
> > > > > the low frequencies probably).
> > > > >
> > > > > A painted wall has some some intrinsic capacitance, and
> > > > > could also have conductivity or capacitance to ground.
> > > > >
> > > > > Try holding your AM radio near the ground wire. If you
> > > > > pick up a buzz, or even if the radio stations suddenly are
> > > > > received at new frequencies, they you've created a ground
> > > > > path.
> > > > >
> > > > > A big choke in the system might help. If there is very good
> > > > > conductance to ground from the wall you can safely remove
> > > > > the ground wire. But usually to get it that good you have to
> > > > > install several ground rods 8' apart and have good soil.
> > > > >
> > > > > If there is nothing electrical that can possibly touch the paint,
> > > > > remove the wire and see if that feels better.
> > > > > You have to do something about the outlets and the wiring.
> > > > > Y-shield paint will not block dirty power frequencies.
> > > > > Maybe you can disconnect hot neutral and ground
> > > > > at the panel for that circuit. There still could be
> > > > > capacitance between those wires and other wires.
> > > > > Are all electronics unplugged at night?
> > > > > Bill
> > > > >
> > > > > On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 2:00 PM, Loni <loni326@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Could this be why I can't sleep in my bedroom. I have the Y shield
> > > > paint
> > > > > > plus the window shielding Have the paint grounded by a metal strip
> > that
> > > > goes
> > > > > > all the way around the room to the the outlet.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > But no cover on the outlets. Just seems like a little area to cause
> > my
> > > > so
> > > > > > much pain????
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Loni
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- On Thu, 5/5/11, Bill Bruno <wbruno@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > From: Bill Bruno <wbruno@>
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Radiation Shield Paints
> > > > > > To: [hidden email]
> > > > > > Date: Thursday, May 5, 2011, 9:21 AM
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What you don't want is a hole in the shield with a wire going
> > through
> > > > the
> > > > > > hole.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If you have an unshielded outlet there will be leakage.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ideally any holes should be less than 1/2 inch.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The best way with outlets would be to use metal junction boxes
> > > > > > and compression fitting to metal conduits to a filter.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > They used to make metal covered outlet covers for outdoors.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If the outlets are live, think safety first.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 10:13 AM, chelseapaul1010
> > > > > > <pbarnes@>wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Cheers for the advice.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > One thing, when you say 'penetrations' do you mean plug sockets?
> > Or
> > > > are
> > > > > > > they ok to be left uncovered? I wont have any electrical devices
> > in
> > > > the
> > > > > > room
> > > > > > > at all...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In [hidden email], Bill Bruno <wbruno@> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I agree with Emil. If there are any penetrations by wires you
> > > > > > > > need to have a filter right there grounded to the shield, with
> > > > > > > > no leaks in the shield. Small holes are OK but no penetrations
> > > > > > > > or long gaps or cracks.
> > > > > > > > Bill
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 10:04 AM, Emil at Less EMF Inc
> > > > > > > > <lessemf@>wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > If you are making a complete enclosure,
> > > > > > > > > and all the shielding is grounded to the same ground,
> > > > > > > > > AND you don't have live electric wires INSIDE the shielded
> > area,
> > > > > > > > > then the electric potential will be equal on all surfaces.
> > You
> > > > will
> > > > > > > have no
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > electric field inside, regardless of voltage on the ground.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Emil
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > > From: "chelseapaul1010" <pbarnes@>
> > > > > > > > > To: <[hidden email]>
> > > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 6:54 AM
> > > > > > > > > Subject: [eSens] Re: Radiation Shield Paints
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > This is slightly worrying as I am currently in the process of
> > > > > > painting
> > > > > > > my
> > > > > > > > > bedroom! Is there anything that can be done to guard against
> > the
> > > > > > spread
> > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > electrical fields in a painted room? I have already grounded
> > the
> > > > > > paint,
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > am covering the floor with aluminium insulating foil (under
> > the
> > > > > > carpet)
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > prevent radiation from coming in from below. My window has
> > > > protective
> > > > > > > film
> > > > > > > > > on it and I am also buying some aluminium blinds for a bit of
> > > > extra
> > > > > > > > > protection.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Obvously I have not spent any length of time in the room yet
> > as
> > > > it is
> > > > > > > not
> > > > > > > > > finished but I am hopeful it will give me an area of relative
> > > > calm
> > > > > > for
> > > > > > > when
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I'm asleep at least! Any extra advice would be welcome...
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Paul
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --- In [hidden email], Ole Alstrup <alstrup@> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Thanks for the clarification and the extra info, greatly
> > > > > > appreciated!
> > > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > > > will try and find the earlier postings on this topic.
> > Thanks!
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > From: emraware <emraware@>
> > > > > > > > > > >To: [hidden email]
> > > > > > > > > > >Sent: Thursday, 5 May 2011, 3:53
> > > > > > > > > > >Subject: [eSens] Re: Radiation Shield Paints
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >�
> >
> > > > > > > > > > >Sorry my misunderstanding-- your email mentioned:
> > > > > > > > > > >"radiation shield paints that can block radiation from
> > mobile
> > > > > > > phones"
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >I meant to warn that 45 dB may not be enough for mobile
> > phone
> > > > > > > radiation.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >For outside cellular towers and communications, though, it
> > is
> > > > weak
> > > > > > > > > enough
> > > > > > > > > > >that 45 dB is probably enough, if done properly.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >Just be aware that radiation shielding paints may spread
> > > > > > electrical
> > > > > > > > > > >fields. I suppose grounding might help, but some others on
> > > > this
> > > > > > > forum
> > > > > > > > > > >seemed to mention things getting worse after they painted
> > with
> > > > > > > > > conductive
> > > > > > > > > > >paint, even when they turned off the electricity.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >Personally I prefer something less permanent than paint,
> > so
> > > > that
> > > > > > if
> > > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > > > >make a mistake, I can remove it.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >--- In [hidden email], Ole Alstrup <alstrup@>
> > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> My query was for reducing or blocking outside radiation
> > from
> > > > > > > cellular
> > > > > > > > > > >> towers and communication.�,� Are you saying that
> > Y-shield
> >
> > > > > > > > > > >> paintings with a screening reduction between 43-45dB is
> > not
> > > > > > > > > > >> sufficient?�,� There are some real life examples in
> > the pdf
> >
> > > > > > > document
> > > > > > > > > > >> at
> > > > http://www.yshield.com/pdf/YSHIELD-EN-ShieldingPaints.pdf
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> From: emraware <emraware@>
> > > > > > > > > > >> >To: [hidden email]
> > > > > > > > > > >> >Sent: Wednesday, 4 May 2011, 2:56
> > > > > > > > > > >> >Subject: [eSens] Re: Radiation Shield Paints
> > > > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > > > >> >�,�
> >
> > > > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > > > >> >I would think an air tube headset with long extension
> > cord
> > > > > > might
> > > > > > > be a
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> >safer bet. (How would you paint your cell phone ?) Cell
> > > > phone
> > > > > > > > > > >> >radiation is quite strong locally and would probably
> > easily
> > > > > > > penetrate
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> >a 60 dB barrier.
> > > > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > > > >> >--- In [hidden email], Ole Alstrup <alstrup@>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >> >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> Hello Emil,
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> �f�?s�,�
> >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> Thanks very much! I see this is available in the EU
> > as
> > > > well.
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> �f�?s�,�
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> Gratefully,
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> �f�?s�,�
> >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> Ole
> > > > > > > > > > >> >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> From: Emil at Less EMF Inc <lessemf@>
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> >To: [hidden email]
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> >Sent: Tuesday, 3 May 2011, 15:49
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> >Subject: Re: [eSens] Radiation Shield Paints
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> >�f�?s�,�
> >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> >Hello Ole,
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> >Yes, see http://www.lessemf.com/paint.html
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> >We offer 2 RF shielding paints: CuPro-Cote and
> > Y-Shield.
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> >Emil DeToffol
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> >Less EMF Inc.
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> >809 Madison Ave.
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> >Albany NY 12208 USA
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> >tel: +1-518-432-1550
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> >www.lessemf.com
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> >----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> >From: <alstrup@>
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> >To: <[hidden email]>
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> >Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 8:53 AM
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> >Subject: [eSens] Radiation Shield Paints
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> >> Hi Folks,
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> >> I need some leads/links to radiation shield paints
> > > > that
> > > > > > can
> > > > > > > > > block
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> >> radiation from mobile phones. I recall having read
> > > > about
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> >> availability
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> >> of these some years ago ie. used for blocking
> > > > > > communication
> > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> >> cinemas
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> >> etc. They have to work across the mw spectrum to
> > block
> > > > > > GSM,
> > > > > > > 3G
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> >> and 4G.
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> >> Thanks,
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> >> Ole
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> >> ------------------------------------
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> >> Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > > > > > >> >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > > > > > > >> >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ------------------------------------
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> >  
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

>
> Since the ground helped an RF ground might help
> more.  That means buried flashing and wide
> straps or foil from the shield to the site of
> the ground rod.
>
> On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 9:01 AM, Bill Bruno <wbruno@...> wrote:
>
> > See if there are other hot spots of magnetic field,
> > maybe you can find another ground connection
> > or source of the current.
> >
> > If the orientation of the radio doesn't matter, it could
> > be capacitative coupling (voltage rather than current)
> > but if you are seeing a magnetic field there must be
> > current.
> >
> > I should have added the idea of putting a choke
> > on your ground wire.  But if you feel better with
> > the ground, you probably don't want a choke
> > (at least not there).
> >
> > If the ground were making things worse I'd recommend
> > a choke of about 12 to 15 turns through a ferrite.
> > For a safety ground the wire must be thick enough
> > to pass as much current as the breaker allows
> > (it's a little complicated, but if you follow the code
> > of 14 ga for 15 amps you're safe... a smaller wire
> > should still be ok at 15 amps but it will take time to
> > trip at that current... the breaker trips immediately only
> > with a much larger current).
> > (More turns works better, but tf you do a huge number of turns you could
> > make it so the breaker won't trip.)
> >
> > Note a choke blocks RF current but not RF voltage,
> > so it may not be that helpful for something you're
> > touching like a computer keyboard.
> >
> > The main choke should be a low frequency ferrite.
> > I've gotten some from Newark but the really big ones
> > I've gotten surplus.  You could also add a high frequency
> > choke (can have less turns) from a harder ferrite.
> >
> > RadioShack sells rectangular split ferrites that are
> > big enough to do several turns around.  You
> > can also get split high frequency ferrites there.
> > LessEMF has them too, but not sure what material they
> > are.  I think I read that for low frequencies a split
> > ferrite is not as good.  Definitely a bar is not as
> > good as a ring.
> >
> > If you put a choke on a wire carrying 5 amps or so of AC
> > current the ferrite will saturate and it won't work.  Unless
> > you wrap the hot and neutral together... then it's a common
> > mode choke.  The currents cancel so it doesn't saturate.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 1:59 AM, kikkie2004 <kikkiehealth@...>wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Hi Bill
> >> Thanks!
> >>
> >> Trifield meter shows just more than 1 mG at the rod.
> >>
> >> AM radio buzzes around the rod doens't matter how I turn it. Although I
> >> see this morning it buzzes in the garden anyway, just much louder around the
> >> rod.
> >>
> >> Had it ungrounded when I was building the faraday cage (with Aluminium
> >> foil) and couldn't stand being in the room until I grounded it to two
> >> earthing spikes. So definitely better grounded.
> >>
> >> Can't trip the switch to the room as there are other rooms on the same
> >> circuit.
> >>
> >> Thanks again.
> >>
> >> K
> >>
> >> --- In [hidden email], Bill Bruno <wbruno@> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > If it mainly buzzes only when the rod antenna inside
> >> > the radio is perpendicular to the ground path, then
> >> > there is certainly RF current going through that
> >> > wire.
> >> >
> >> > A small magnetic field probe will tell if there is also
> >> > 60Hz going through. If so then there must be another
> >> > path from the shield to ground, and the path may
> >> > make a loop near some magnetic field source
> >> > (like a power panel).
> >> >
> >> > If the other path can't be interrupted, then, if you
> >> > are sure there is no risk of the shield ever becoming
> >> > energized by a hot electric wire, try disconnecting
> >> > your ground and see how you feel.
> >> >
> >> > If there is no 60Hz current, then the other path
> >> > to ground may be capacitative only. Again
> >> > you might try disconnecting the ground if it's safe to.
> >> >
> >> > If the ground rod is outside your shield, and there
> >> > is something like a noisy power line causing the
> >> > buzz, the rod might help. But the shield paint
> >> > is probably not going to do a great job with
> >> > those ~MHz frequencies. In a case like this,
> >> > adding some buried flashing (copper is best)
> >> > connected to your ground rod might be a benefit,
> >> > though it may not be worth the effort. An RF
> >> > grounding path should ideally be less than 8 times longer
> >> > than the width of the grounding straps or braids.
> >> > So 8' of 1' wide flashing connected directly to your
> >> > shield and buried would be pretty good if the
> >> > dirt is fairly conductive. If your shield is bonded
> >> > to a conductive floor then don't bother with RF
> >> > grounding.
> >> >
> >> > On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 1:20 AM, kikkie2004 <kikkiehealth@> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > Hi Bill
> >> > >
> >> > > I was reading this and wanted to ask you:
> >> > >
> >> > > If I hold the AM radio to the earthing rod (going into the earth, that
> >> I've
> >> > > grounded my faraday cage to) and it has a buzz, what does that mean?
> >> > >
> >> > > Thanks
> >> > > K
> >> > >
> >> > > --- In [hidden email], Bill Bruno <wbruno@> wrote:
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Grounding to the outlet might not be good from the
> >> > > > point of view of EMFs (it does add safety in the event
> >> > > > of a hot wire touching the paint, especially if the wire is big
> >> enough so
> >> > > > the breaker will trip).
> >> > > >
> >> > > > The outlet is connected to the power company at your
> >> > > > panel (unless you've gone to an isolated ground system)
> >> > > > so it has dirty power on it. There is a ground rod probably
> >> > > > at the panel but that's not very low impedance at all so it
> >> > > > doesn't get rid of all of the high frequencies (not even all
> >> > > > the low frequencies probably).
> >> > > >
> >> > > > A painted wall has some some intrinsic capacitance, and
> >> > > > could also have conductivity or capacitance to ground.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Try holding your AM radio near the ground wire. If you
> >> > > > pick up a buzz, or even if the radio stations suddenly are
> >> > > > received at new frequencies, they you've created a ground
> >> > > > path.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > A big choke in the system might help. If there is very good
> >> > > > conductance to ground from the wall you can safely remove
> >> > > > the ground wire. But usually to get it that good you have to
> >> > > > install several ground rods 8' apart and have good soil.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > If there is nothing electrical that can possibly touch the paint,
> >> > > > remove the wire and see if that feels better.
> >> > > > You have to do something about the outlets and the wiring.
> >> > > > Y-shield paint will not block dirty power frequencies.
> >> > > > Maybe you can disconnect hot neutral and ground
> >> > > > at the panel for that circuit. There still could be
> >> > > > capacitance between those wires and other wires.
> >> > > > Are all electronics unplugged at night?
> >> > > > Bill
> >> > > >
> >> > > > On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 2:00 PM, Loni <loni326@> wrote:
> >> > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Could this be why I can't sleep in my bedroom. I have the Y shield
> >> > > paint
> >> > > > > plus the window shielding Have the paint grounded by a metal strip
> >> that
> >> > > goes
> >> > > > > all the way around the room to the the outlet.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > But no cover on the outlets. Just seems like a little area to
> >> cause my
> >> > > so
> >> > > > > much pain????
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Loni
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > --- On Thu, 5/5/11, Bill Bruno <wbruno@> wrote:
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > From: Bill Bruno <wbruno@>
> >> > > > > Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Radiation Shield Paints
> >> > > > > To: [hidden email]
> >> > > > > Date: Thursday, May 5, 2011, 9:21 AM
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > What you don't want is a hole in the shield with a wire going
> >> through
> >> > > the
> >> > > > > hole.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > If you have an unshielded outlet there will be leakage.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Ideally any holes should be less than 1/2 inch.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > The best way with outlets would be to use metal junction boxes
> >> > > > > and compression fitting to metal conduits to a filter.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > They used to make metal covered outlet covers for outdoors.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > If the outlets are live, think safety first.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 10:13 AM, chelseapaul1010
> >> > > > > <pbarnes@>wrote:
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > Cheers for the advice.
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > One thing, when you say 'penetrations' do you mean plug sockets?
> >> Or
> >> > > are
> >> > > > > > they ok to be left uncovered? I wont have any electrical devices
> >> in
> >> > > the
> >> > > > > room
> >> > > > > > at all...
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > --- In [hidden email], Bill Bruno <wbruno@> wrote:
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > I agree with Emil. If there are any penetrations by wires you
> >> > > > > > > need to have a filter right there grounded to the shield, with
> >> > > > > > > no leaks in the shield. Small holes are OK but no penetrations
> >> > > > > > > or long gaps or cracks.
> >> > > > > > > Bill
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 10:04 AM, Emil at Less EMF Inc
> >> > > > > > > <lessemf@>wrote:
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > If you are making a complete enclosure,
> >> > > > > > > > and all the shielding is grounded to the same ground,
> >> > > > > > > > AND you don't have live electric wires INSIDE the shielded
> >> area,
> >> > > > > > > > then the electric potential will be equal on all surfaces.
> >> You
> >> > > will
> >> > > > > > have no
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > electric field inside, regardless of voltage on the ground.
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > Emil
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > > > > > > > From: "chelseapaul1010" <pbarnes@>
> >> > > > > > > > To: <[hidden email]>
> >> > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 6:54 AM
> >> > > > > > > > Subject: [eSens] Re: Radiation Shield Paints
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > This is slightly worrying as I am currently in the process
> >> of
> >> > > > > painting
> >> > > > > > my
> >> > > > > > > > bedroom! Is there anything that can be done to guard against
> >> the
> >> > > > > spread
> >> > > > > > of
> >> > > > > > > > electrical fields in a painted room? I have already grounded
> >> the
> >> > > > > paint,
> >> > > > > > and
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > am covering the floor with aluminium insulating foil (under
> >> the
> >> > > > > carpet)
> >> > > > > > to
> >> > > > > > > > prevent radiation from coming in from below. My window has
> >> > > protective
> >> > > > > > film
> >> > > > > > > > on it and I am also buying some aluminium blinds for a bit
> >> of
> >> > > extra
> >> > > > > > > > protection.
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > Obvously I have not spent any length of time in the room yet
> >> as
> >> > > it is
> >> > > > > > not
> >> > > > > > > > finished but I am hopeful it will give me an area of
> >> relative
> >> > > calm
> >> > > > > for
> >> > > > > > when
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > I'm asleep at least! Any extra advice would be welcome...
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > Paul
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > --- In [hidden email], Ole Alstrup <alstrup@> wrote:
> >> > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > Thanks for the clarification and the extra info, greatly
> >> > > > > appreciated!
> >> > > > > > I
> >> > > > > > > > > will try and find the earlier postings on this topic.
> >> Thanks!
> >> > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > From: emraware <emraware@>
> >> > > > > > > > > >To: [hidden email]
> >> > > > > > > > > >Sent: Thursday, 5 May 2011, 3:53
> >> > > > > > > > > >Subject: [eSens] Re: Radiation Shield Paints
> >> > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >�
> >>
> >> > > > > > > > > >Sorry my misunderstanding-- your email mentioned:
> >> > > > > > > > > >"radiation shield paints that can block radiation from
> >> mobile
> >> > > > > > phones"
> >> > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >I meant to warn that 45 dB may not be enough for mobile
> >> phone
> >> > > > > > radiation.
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >For outside cellular towers and communications, though,
> >> it is
> >> > > weak
> >> > > > > > > > enough
> >> > > > > > > > > >that 45 dB is probably enough, if done properly.
> >> > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >Just be aware that radiation shielding paints may spread
> >> > > > > electrical
> >> > > > > > > > > >fields. I suppose grounding might help, but some others
> >> on
> >> > > this
> >> > > > > > forum
> >> > > > > > > > > >seemed to mention things getting worse after they painted
> >> with
> >> > > > > > > > conductive
> >> > > > > > > > > >paint, even when they turned off the electricity.
> >> > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >Personally I prefer something less permanent than paint,
> >> so
> >> > > that
> >> > > > > if
> >> > > > > > I
> >> > > > > > > > > >make a mistake, I can remove it.
> >> > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >--- In [hidden email], Ole Alstrup <alstrup@>
> >> wrote:
> >> > > > > > > > > >>
> >> > > > > > > > > >> My query was for reducing or blocking outside radiation
> >> from
> >> > > > > > cellular
> >> > > > > > > > > >> towers and communication.�,� Are you saying that
> >> Y-shield
> >>
> >> > > > > > > > > >> paintings with a screening reduction between 43-45dB is
> >> not
> >> > > > > > > > > >> sufficient?�,� There are some real life examples in
> >> the pdf
> >>
> >> > > > > > document
> >> > > > > > > > > >> at
> >> > > http://www.yshield.com/pdf/YSHIELD-EN-ShieldingPaints.pdf
> >> > > > > > > > > >>
> >> > > > > > > > > >> From: emraware <emraware@>
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >To: [hidden email]
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >Sent: Wednesday, 4 May 2011, 2:56
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >Subject: [eSens] Re: Radiation Shield Paints
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >�,�
> >>
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >I would think an air tube headset with long extension
> >> cord
> >> > > > > might
> >> > > > > > be a
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >safer bet. (How would you paint your cell phone ?)
> >> Cell
> >> > > phone
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >radiation is quite strong locally and would probably
> >> easily
> >> > > > > > penetrate
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >a 60 dB barrier.
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >--- In [hidden email], Ole Alstrup <alstrup@>
> >> > > wrote:
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >>
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> Hello Emil,
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> �f�?s�,�
> >>
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> Thanks very much! I see this is available in the EU
> >> as
> >> > > well.
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> �f�?s�,�
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> Gratefully,
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> �f�?s�,�
> >>
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> Ole
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >>
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> From: Emil at Less EMF Inc <lessemf@>
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> >To: [hidden email]
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> >Sent: Tuesday, 3 May 2011, 15:49
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> >Subject: Re: [eSens] Radiation Shield Paints
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> >�f�?s�,�
> >>
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> >Hello Ole,
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> >Yes, see http://www.lessemf.com/paint.html
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> >We offer 2 RF shielding paints: CuPro-Cote and
> >> Y-Shield.
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> >Emil DeToffol
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> >Less EMF Inc.
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> >809 Madison Ave.
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> >Albany NY 12208 USA
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> >tel: +1-518-432-1550
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> >www.lessemf.com
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> >----- Original Message -----
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> >From: <alstrup@>
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> >To: <[hidden email]>
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> >Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 8:53 AM
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> >Subject: [eSens] Radiation Shield Paints
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> >> Hi Folks,
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> >>
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> >> I need some leads/links to radiation shield
> >> paints
> >> > > that
> >> > > > > can
> >> > > > > > > > block
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> >> radiation from mobile phones. I recall having
> >> read
> >> > > about
> >> > > > > the
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> >> availability
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> >> of these some years ago ie. used for blocking
> >> > > > > communication
> >> > > > > > in
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> >> cinemas
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> >> etc. They have to work across the mw spectrum to
> >> block
> >> > > > > GSM,
> >> > > > > > 3G
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> >> and 4G.
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> >>
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> >> Thanks,
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> >>
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> >> Ole
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> >>
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> >>
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> >>
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> >> ------------------------------------
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> >>
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> >> Yahoo! Groups Links
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> >>
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> >>
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> >>
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> >>
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> >>
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >>
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> >> removed]
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >>
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >
> >> > > > > > > > > >>
> >> > > > > > > > > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >> > > > > > > > > >>
> >> > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >> > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > ------------------------------------
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > ------------------------------------
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >> >
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