RF spikes when turning things on (switches, etc.)?

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RF spikes when turning things on (switches, etc.)?

R. Ticle
Hey everyone,

I've just noticed something that is surprising (to me), and I'm
wondering if anyone could explain to me what it means, and if it's a
"normal" occurrence/if anything can be done about it.

Using two Gigahertz Solutions HF Analyzers, one from 800 MHz-2.5 GHz,
and one from 2.4 GHz-6 GHz, I've noticed radio frequency surges when I
turn things on and off in the house.

For example, the electric kettle, the bathroom fan, even ordinary
ceiling lights (with incandescent bulbs in them) or extension cords
with a switch in the middle of the cord. Sometimes the RF surges can
be measured up to five feet away from either the outlet or the switch
of the device.

In the case of the bathroom fan switch, it's really curious - turning
it on, the 800 MHz-2.5 GHz meter will show a surge of about 35 uW/m2
at a few feet away, but turning it OFF will show a surge of over 100
uW/m2!

I'm possibly missing something obvious, but this is the first time
I've noticed this, though it probably has happened for quite some time.  

Overall, the ambient RF (that's readable within the range of these two
meters, a total of 800 MHz up to 6 GHz, seems quite good - neither one
even registers 0.1 uW/m2, thankfully, just walking around the house.

We have no cordless/wireless devices, period (except a phone that's
long been unplugged with the battery removed).

The only known RF emitting devices I can think of are the two computer
towers (and they are not using WiFi, nor have wireless networks set
up, it's just something coming from the inner workings of them, I
think, and it drops off quickly with distance.

So - what does this mean? Is it "normal" for any electrical surge of
something being turned on or off to carry radio frequency? Or may this
indicate (by a means different than using a plug-in microsurge meter)
that we have "dirty electricity"? Or that something is being
transferred to our wiring from outside?

And, is there a way to eliminate these RF bursts? Shielding wiring,
something installed at the fuse box, filters of some sort, or what?

Any advice or information is appreciated.

Thanks!

Cheers,

R.

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Re: RF spikes when turning things on (switches, etc.)?

charles-4
That is quite normal.

And it cannot be avoided.

The switches do make small sparks, and that is what you are measuring.

Those bursts are very short, but because the meter is a bit slow in
reacting, and holds those signals a bit longer, than they appear in reality,
so that way they are registered.

Don't worry about it.

The HF59B has a special item that holds radar signals quite a bit longer, so
they can be measured properly.
Otherwise the bursts are too short for detecting them.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes.nl
www.milieuziektes.be
www.hetbitje.nl
checked by Bitdefender




----- Original Message -----
From: "rticleone" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 19:16
Subject: [eSens] RF spikes when turning things on (switches, etc.)?


> Hey everyone,
>
> I've just noticed something that is surprising (to me), and I'm
> wondering if anyone could explain to me what it means, and if it's a
> "normal" occurrence/if anything can be done about it.
>
> Using two Gigahertz Solutions HF Analyzers, one from 800 MHz-2.5 GHz,
> and one from 2.4 GHz-6 GHz, I've noticed radio frequency surges when I
> turn things on and off in the house.
>
> For example, the electric kettle, the bathroom fan, even ordinary
> ceiling lights (with incandescent bulbs in them) or extension cords
> with a switch in the middle of the cord. Sometimes the RF surges can
> be measured up to five feet away from either the outlet or the switch
> of the device.
>
> In the case of the bathroom fan switch, it's really curious - turning
> it on, the 800 MHz-2.5 GHz meter will show a surge of about 35 uW/m2
> at a few feet away, but turning it OFF will show a surge of over 100
> uW/m2!
>
> I'm possibly missing something obvious, but this is the first time
> I've noticed this, though it probably has happened for quite some time.
>
> Overall, the ambient RF (that's readable within the range of these two
> meters, a total of 800 MHz up to 6 GHz, seems quite good - neither one
> even registers 0.1 uW/m2, thankfully, just walking around the house.
>
> We have no cordless/wireless devices, period (except a phone that's
> long been unplugged with the battery removed).
>
> The only known RF emitting devices I can think of are the two computer
> towers (and they are not using WiFi, nor have wireless networks set
> up, it's just something coming from the inner workings of them, I
> think, and it drops off quickly with distance.
>
> So - what does this mean? Is it "normal" for any electrical surge of
> something being turned on or off to carry radio frequency? Or may this
> indicate (by a means different than using a plug-in microsurge meter)
> that we have "dirty electricity"? Or that something is being
> transferred to our wiring from outside?
>
> And, is there a way to eliminate these RF bursts? Shielding wiring,
> something installed at the fuse box, filters of some sort, or what?
>
> Any advice or information is appreciated.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Cheers,
>
> R.
>

PUK
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Re: RF spikes when turning things on (switches, etc.)?

PUK
In reply to this post by R. Ticle

In a message dated 2/23/2008 6:16:39 PM GMT Standard Time,
[hidden email] writes:

And, is there a way to eliminate these RF bursts? Shielding wiring,
something installed at the fuse box, filters of some sort, or what?




I have noticed this, I had a key ring fob that flashes when a mibile rings
and everytime I switched on the kitchen extract fan it set the thing off
flashing ! The switch was a sliding type so I guess that when operated it gives
off a burst/surge for a micro second in a broad frequency band perhaps due to
the sudden largely uncontrolled surge that occurs and thus leaks out from the
switch components. it does not bother me on the basis that it only happens
infrequently and so will not cuase chronis effects. It is a fact that if you
hook someone up to a EEG the brain will show itself register the flicking of a
light switch over and above effects on the equipment, we are after all
equisitely sensitive ES or not.


PAUL UK

Paul






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: RF spikes when turning things on (switches, etc.)?

BiBrun
If you turn something on you create a 'step function' which has
all frequencies in it. Plus, the meter may not be too accurate with
transients.

The energy in the pulse is lower if there's less current being turned on
or off. Hence I put LED bulbs (but not the kind with built in regulators)
for the turn signal of my car...
Bill

On Sat, Feb 23, 2008 at 1:08 PM, <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> In a message dated 2/23/2008 6:16:39 PM GMT Standard Time,
> [hidden email] <rticleone%40yahoo.ca> writes:
>
> And, is there a way to eliminate these RF bursts? Shielding wiring,
> something installed at the fuse box, filters of some sort, or what?
>
> I have noticed this, I had a key ring fob that flashes when a mibile rings
>
> and everytime I switched on the kitchen extract fan it set the thing off
> flashing ! The switch was a sliding type so I guess that when operated it
> gives
> off a burst/surge for a micro second in a broad frequency band perhaps due
> to
> the sudden largely uncontrolled surge that occurs and thus leaks out from
> the
> switch components. it does not bother me on the basis that it only happens
>
> infrequently and so will not cuase chronis effects. It is a fact that if
> you
> hook someone up to a EEG the brain will show itself register the flicking
> of a
> light switch over and above effects on the equipment, we are after all
> equisitely sensitive ES or not.
>
>
> PAUL UK
>
> Paul
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: RF spikes when turning things on (switches, etc.)?

BiBrun
I forgot to mention that most turn signal relays do not work
with LEDs, so I replaced that too, which was the hard part.

Bill

On Sat, Feb 23, 2008 at 6:56 PM, Bill Bruno <[hidden email]> wrote:

> If you turn something on you create a 'step function' which has
> all frequencies in it. Plus, the meter may not be too accurate with
> transients.
>
> The energy in the pulse is lower if there's less current being turned on
> or off. Hence I put LED bulbs (but not the kind with built in regulators)
> for the turn signal of my car...
> Bill
>
>
> On Sat, Feb 23, 2008 at 1:08 PM, <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> >
> > In a message dated 2/23/2008 6:16:39 PM GMT Standard Time,
> > [hidden email] <rticleone%40yahoo.ca> writes:
> >
> > And, is there a way to eliminate these RF bursts? Shielding wiring,
> > something installed at the fuse box, filters of some sort, or what?
> >
> > I have noticed this, I had a key ring fob that flashes when a mibile
> > rings
> > and everytime I switched on the kitchen extract fan it set the thing off
> >
> > flashing ! The switch was a sliding type so I guess that when operated
> > it gives
> > off a burst/surge for a micro second in a broad frequency band perhaps
> > due to
> > the sudden largely uncontrolled surge that occurs and thus leaks out
> > from the
> > switch components. it does not bother me on the basis that it only
> > happens
> > infrequently and so will not cuase chronis effects. It is a fact that if
> > you
> > hook someone up to a EEG the brain will show itself register the
> > flicking of a
> > light switch over and above effects on the equipment, we are after all
> > equisitely sensitive ES or not.
> >
> >
> > PAUL UK
> >
> > Paul
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: RF spikes when turning things on (switches, etc.)?

R. Ticle
In reply to this post by R. Ticle
Everybody,

Thanks! Great answers, I'm happy to be helped by so many knowledgeable
people. The thought of the small sparks never even crossed my mind.

Best,

R.