Questions regarding 4G LTE...

Salut, all. I now have a magnet that is helping me be on the computer for very short intervals @ a time. Anyway, wondering a few things about 4G LTE.

1. What makes it worse than other wireless tech? Is it the power/bandwidth/speed or sthg else?

2. What frequency range does this technology use?

3. Does anyone have any idea what the range of the signal is for 4G LTE towers (i.e., how far the signal reaches) & typical 4G LTE-enabled devices?

Thanks very much. I'm praying for all you guys, & all those yet to be affected. Let's keep visualizing a safer, healthier world <3

Love & blessings,
Elysia


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> 1. What makes it worse than other wireless tech?

I think we've merely been assuming that 4G LTE is worse than other
technologies, based on some of our members feeling worse recently.  
I don't think we actually have any proof yet that this is indeed the
cause of them feeling worse, or what about it would be causing
that.  Just some theories that the higher data rate and lower
carrier frequency might make it more harmful.

Marc

Overhere, LTE will be used in the 440MHz, 700MHz, 800MHz, 900MHz, 1500MHz, 1800MHZ, 2300MHz and 2600MHz Frequency bands.
That is what Brussels wants.

I now measure testings at the 2600MHz band.

And there is a newer system coming, already in use In Brandenburg Germany, which can send as far as 60km.

I think the only option will be an emigration to Mars.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
member Verband Baubiologie
www.milieuziektes.nl
www.milieuziektes.be
www.hetbitje.nl
checked by Norton
 
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Marc Martin
  To: [hidden email]
  Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2011 12:02 AM
  Subject: Re: [eSens] Questions regarding 4G LTE...


  > 1. What makes it worse than other wireless tech?

  I think we've merely been assuming that 4G LTE is worse than other
  technologies, based on some of our members feeling worse recently.  
  I don't think we actually have any proof yet that this is indeed the
  cause of them feeling worse, or what about it would be causing
  that.  Just some theories that the higher data rate and lower
  carrier frequency might make it more harmful.

  Marc


  ------------------------------------

  Yahoo! Groups Links





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I recently went to my favorite health food store- they had just
activated the 4G LTE in Flint, Mi. Normally, I don't get an immed
reaction. Usually, I get the after affect of fatigue from 300
cell antennas in the area.
Upon reaching the city limits, my leg started to spasm,
I got a cramp in the other leg. There IS something much stronger
about this particular technology.
Lizzie

 



To: [hidden email]
From: [hidden email]
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2011 15:02:09 -0700
Subject: Re: [eSens] Questions regarding 4G LTE...


 



> 1. What makes it worse than other wireless tech?

I think we've merely been assuming that 4G LTE is worse than other
technologies, based on some of our members feeling worse recently.
I don't think we actually have any proof yet that this is indeed the
cause of them feeling worse, or what about it would be causing
that. Just some theories that the higher data rate and lower
carrier frequency might make it more harmful.

Marc



     

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> I recently went to my favorite health food store- they had just
> activated the 4G LTE in Flint, Mi.

And you're sure that they haven't activated anything
else there recently?  Other kinds of "4G" technology,
city-wide Internet access, etc.

Marc

By the way, I just looked this up... in Flint Michigan,
they were testing 4G LTE in May 2011, and it was
activated full-time on June 16, 2011.

So if you're only noticing something just recently,
perhaps you're noticing something other than
4G LTE?

Marc

On Wednesday, October 05, 2011 3:58 PM, "Marc Martin" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > I recently went to my favorite health food store- they had just
> > activated the 4G LTE in Flint, Mi.
 

You mean like: "Was I there to see the actual activation- like did I actually witness it?"
Noooo.
It was reported in the newspaper.
Is the newspaper always accurate.  
Heck No- not on most things.
Is it possible it was another type of 4G?
Yes, it is possible. But my feeling is:
it was as the newspaper said it was.
Where I live? It is rural sm town. Where I shop?
Big city town. Was it a fluke? I'd love to say it was,
but the exact same thing happened the next time
I went to that store. Whatever form it is, I believe
it is 4G LTE. I have friends who live there..I have watched
them grow very dark circles under their eyes, in the less
then 2 weeks what ever it was, was activated, that wasn't
activated before.
Lizzie
 

 



To: [hidden email]
From: [hidden email]
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2011 15:58:00 -0700
Subject: RE: [eSens] Questions regarding 4G LTE...


 



> I recently went to my favorite health food store- they had just
> activated the 4G LTE in Flint, Mi.

And you're sure that they haven't activated anything
else there recently? Other kinds of "4G" technology,
city-wide Internet access, etc.

Marc



     

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Newspaper account  I read (I'll have to find it here in my stack)
stated activation of 4G LTE was late Sept  2011. I want to
say Sept 21. It is true they activated something this past June.
But whatever was just recently activated????
All I can say is; this one is either very different/ or much stronger,
or perhaps the location is amplifying the effect?
Don't know. It is true it could be something else...
but I don't think it is.
Lizzie

 



To: [hidden email]
From: [hidden email]
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2011 16:33:14 -0700
Subject: RE: [eSens] Questions regarding 4G LTE...


 



By the way, I just looked this up... in Flint Michigan,
they were testing 4G LTE in May 2011, and it was
activated full-time on June 16, 2011.

So if you're only noticing something just recently,
perhaps you're noticing something other than
4G LTE?

Marc

On Wednesday, October 05, 2011 3:58 PM, "Marc Martin" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > I recently went to my favorite health food store- they had just
> > activated the 4G LTE in Flint, Mi.




     

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> Newspaper account  I read (I'll have to find it here in my stack)
> stated activation of 4G LTE was late Sept  2011.

I'd be interested to hear what that newspaper
said was turned on there in September that
is causing you problems.

Reportedly Verizon turned on their 4G LTE in
Flint MI back in June.  But something else may
have been turned on in September?

Marc

Yes Lizzie for sure; stronger. Much stronger!  It is supposed to be 3 times more powerful than Wimax and that was supposed to reach every nook and cranny. Believe me when I cannot find one spot that looks quite remote to sleep safely without being fried.
 
I traveled 45 minutes away from my house to what looked to be in the mountains. And I parked by a big bush and put some foil in the window.
 
My skin still burnt and I felt electicuted. Then when I got up I of course was a zombie all day,.
 
I just want to warn everyone that this is for sure dangerous!
 
Loni

--- On Wed, 10/5/11, Elizabeth thode <[hidden email]> wrote:


From: Elizabeth thode <[hidden email]>
Subject: RE: [eSens] Questions regarding 4G LTE...
To: [hidden email]
Date: Wednesday, October 5, 2011, 3:40 PM



 




I recently went to my favorite health food store- they had just
activated the 4G LTE in Flint, Mi. Normally, I don't get an immed
reaction. Usually, I get the after affect of fatigue from 300
cell antennas in the area.
Upon reaching the city limits, my leg started to spasm,
I got a cramp in the other leg. There IS something much stronger
about this particular technology.
Lizzie

To: [hidden email]
From: [hidden email]
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2011 15:02:09 -0700
Subject: Re: [eSens] Questions regarding 4G LTE...

> 1. What makes it worse than other wireless tech?

I think we've merely been assuming that 4G LTE is worse than other
technologies, based on some of our members feeling worse recently.
I don't think we actually have any proof yet that this is indeed the
cause of them feeling worse, or what about it would be causing
that. Just some theories that the higher data rate and lower
carrier frequency might make it more harmful.

Marc



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Marc; you are starting to sound like my husband. Always trying to say it is something else. I know it is this new strong frequency without a doubt. I used to be able to go 7 miles to the park and sleep there peacefully. Still had cell reception there just fine but was the old technology.
 
Now I fry there and it is life threatening. There just isn't any other explanation.
 
It is going to effect most EHSers I am sure but that is my opinion based on my experience of late.
 
Loni

--- On Wed, 10/5/11, Marc Martin <[hidden email]> wrote:


From: Marc Martin <[hidden email]>
Subject: RE: [eSens] Questions regarding 4G LTE...
To: [hidden email]
Date: Wednesday, October 5, 2011, 4:33 PM



 



By the way, I just looked this up... in Flint Michigan,
they were testing 4G LTE in May 2011, and it was
activated full-time on June 16, 2011.

So if you're only noticing something just recently,
perhaps you're noticing something other than
4G LTE?

Marc

On Wednesday, October 05, 2011 3:58 PM, "Marc Martin" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > I recently went to my favorite health food store- they had just
> > activated the 4G LTE in Flint, Mi.








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Wooh, Lizzi, You feel the difference w your leg out vs. under the
protective clothing?

I can't find if we have it in St. Louis, MO.

 Loni, Did you get a meter yet? I have to get one.


Those of you who have RF meters,

have you measured the difference?


Kathy -

From: Loni <[hidden email]>
: RE: [eSens] Questions regarding 4G LTE...
















 
 



 


   
     
     
      Yes Lizzie for sure; stronger. Much stronger!  It is supposed to be 3 times more powerful than Wimax and that was supposed to reach every nook and cranny. Believe me when I cannot find one spot that looks quite remote to sleep safely without being fried.

 

I traveled 45 minutes away from my house to what looked to be in the mountains. And I parked by a big bush and put some foil in the window.

 

My skin still burnt and I felt electicuted. Then when I got up I of course was a zombie all day,.

 

I just want to warn everyone that this is for sure dangerous!

 

Loni





From: Elizabeth thode <[hidden email]>

Subject: RE: [eSens] Questions regarding 4G LTE...



I recently went to my favorite health food store- they had just

activated the 4G LTE in Flint, Mi. Normally, I don't get an immed

reaction. Usually, I get the after affect of fatigue from 300

cell antennas in the area.

Upon reaching the city limits, my leg started to spasm,

I got a cramp in the other leg. There IS something much stronger

about this particular technology.

Lizzie



 





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hey Lizzie,
 
Dark circles; yeah I look like death warmed over since this proliferation of 4G LTE. My girlfriend said she's never seen me look so bad and she is concerned. It is aging me big time. I haven't had a good night sleep since because I fry all night.
 
I'm getting out of here tomorrow for a emf break before it kills me. 
 
I really never want to come back to be honest.  But where I'm going will eventually have it as well.
 
Loni

--- On Wed, 10/5/11, Elizabeth thode <[hidden email]> wrote:


From: Elizabeth thode <[hidden email]>
Subject: RE: [eSens] Questions regarding 4G LTE...
To: [hidden email]
Date: Wednesday, October 5, 2011, 5:14 PM



 




You mean like: "Was I there to see the actual activation- like did I actually witness it?"
Noooo.
It was reported in the newspaper.
Is the newspaper always accurate.
Heck No- not on most things.
Is it possible it was another type of 4G?
Yes, it is possible. But my feeling is:
it was as the newspaper said it was.
Where I live? It is rural sm town. Where I shop?
Big city town. Was it a fluke? I'd love to say it was,
but the exact same thing happened the next time
I went to that store. Whatever form it is, I believe
it is 4G LTE. I have friends who live there..I have watched
them grow very dark circles under their eyes, in the less
then 2 weeks what ever it was, was activated, that wasn't
activated before.
Lizzie


To: [hidden email]
From: [hidden email]
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2011 15:58:00 -0700
Subject: RE: [eSens] Questions regarding 4G LTE...

> I recently went to my favorite health food store- they had just
> activated the 4G LTE in Flint, Mi.

And you're sure that they haven't activated anything
else there recently? Other kinds of "4G" technology,
city-wide Internet access, etc.

Marc



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Loni,
I'm so sorry. I will Reiki you tonite.
So if you feel a warm cocoon...that will be the Reiki power.
I have learned to tell my daughter ahead of  time when I Reiki her...
so she doesn't freak out. Last week, I was working on her kidneys/adrenals-
I forgot to tell her ahead of time. She woke up and said she felt hands
on her back (kidney area). Oops. that was me dong the Reiki.
Lizzie
 



To: [hidden email]
From: [hidden email]
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2011 19:52:24 -0700
Subject: RE: [eSens] Questions regarding 4G LTE...


 



Yes Lizzie for sure; stronger. Much stronger!  It is supposed to be 3 times more powerful than Wimax and that was supposed to reach every nook and cranny. Believe me when I cannot find one spot that looks quite remote to sleep safely without being fried.
 
I traveled 45 minutes away from my house to what looked to be in the mountains. And I parked by a big bush and put some foil in the window.
 
My skin still burnt and I felt electicuted. Then when I got up I of course was a zombie all day,.
 
I just want to warn everyone that this is for sure dangerous!
 
Loni

--- On Wed, 10/5/11, Elizabeth thode <[hidden email]> wrote:

From: Elizabeth thode <[hidden email]>
Subject: RE: [eSens] Questions regarding 4G LTE...
To: [hidden email]
Date: Wednesday, October 5, 2011, 3:40 PM

 

I recently went to my favorite health food store- they had just
activated the 4G LTE in Flint, Mi. Normally, I don't get an immed
reaction. Usually, I get the after affect of fatigue from 300
cell antennas in the area.
Upon reaching the city limits, my leg started to spasm,
I got a cramp in the other leg. There IS something much stronger
about this particular technology.
Lizzie

To: [hidden email]
From: [hidden email]
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2011 15:02:09 -0700
Subject: Re: [eSens] Questions regarding 4G LTE...

> 1. What makes it worse than other wireless tech?

I think we've merely been assuming that 4G LTE is worse than other
technologies, based on some of our members feeling worse recently.
I don't think we actually have any proof yet that this is indeed the
cause of them feeling worse, or what about it would be causing
that. Just some theories that the higher data rate and lower
carrier frequency might make it more harmful.

Marc

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




     

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Can't think like that....
miracles are happening all over the world.
I know it doesn't feel like that right now.
I will think positive thoughts for you...
Lizzie
 



To: [hidden email]
From: [hidden email]
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2011 20:00:31 -0700
Subject: RE: [eSens] Questions regarding 4G LTE...


 



Hey Lizzie,
 
Dark circles; yeah I look like death warmed over since this proliferation of 4G LTE. My girlfriend said she's never seen me look so bad and she is concerned. It is aging me big time. I haven't had a good night sleep since because I fry all night.
 
I'm getting out of here tomorrow for a emf break before it kills me.  
 
I really never want to come back to be honest.  But where I'm going will eventually have it as well.
 
Loni

--- On Wed, 10/5/11, Elizabeth thode <[hidden email]> wrote:

From: Elizabeth thode <[hidden email]>
Subject: RE: [eSens] Questions regarding 4G LTE...
To: [hidden email]
Date: Wednesday, October 5, 2011, 5:14 PM

 

You mean like: "Was I there to see the actual activation- like did I actually witness it?"
Noooo.
It was reported in the newspaper.
Is the newspaper always accurate.
Heck No- not on most things.
Is it possible it was another type of 4G?
Yes, it is possible. But my feeling is:
it was as the newspaper said it was.
Where I live? It is rural sm town. Where I shop?
Big city town. Was it a fluke? I'd love to say it was,
but the exact same thing happened the next time
I went to that store. Whatever form it is, I believe
it is 4G LTE. I have friends who live there..I have watched
them grow very dark circles under their eyes, in the less
then 2 weeks what ever it was, was activated, that wasn't
activated before.
Lizzie

To: [hidden email]
From: [hidden email]
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2011 15:58:00 -0700
Subject: RE: [eSens] Questions regarding 4G LTE...

> I recently went to my favorite health food store- they had just
> activated the 4G LTE in Flint, Mi.

And you're sure that they haven't activated anything
else there recently? Other kinds of "4G" technology,
city-wide Internet access, etc.

Marc

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




     

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

No, my legs aren't covered. That's why I was able to feel it so strongly!
And that it happened twice, in the same area?
That is some nasty nasty stuff.
Boxers/ T-shirt, scarf around my head/neck- legs exposed.
Lizzie
 



To: [hidden email]
From: [hidden email]
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2011 19:59:39 -0700
Subject: RE: [eSens] Questions regarding 4G LTE...


 




Wooh, Lizzi, You feel the difference w your leg out vs. under the
protective clothing?

I can't find if we have it in St. Louis, MO.

 Loni, Did you get a meter yet? I have to get one.

Those of you who have RF meters,

have you measured the difference?

Kathy -

From: Loni <[hidden email]>
: RE: [eSens] Questions regarding 4G LTE...

 

Yes Lizzie for sure; stronger. Much stronger!  It is supposed to be 3 times more powerful than Wimax and that was supposed to reach every nook and cranny. Believe me when I cannot find one spot that looks quite remote to sleep safely without being fried.

 

I traveled 45 minutes away from my house to what looked to be in the mountains. And I parked by a big bush and put some foil in the window.

 

My skin still burnt and I felt electicuted. Then when I got up I of course was a zombie all day,.

 

I just want to warn everyone that this is for sure dangerous!

 

Loni

From: Elizabeth thode <[hidden email]>

Subject: RE: [eSens] Questions regarding 4G LTE...

I recently went to my favorite health food store- they had just

activated the 4G LTE in Flint, Mi. Normally, I don't get an immed

reaction. Usually, I get the after affect of fatigue from 300

cell antennas in the area.

Upon reaching the city limits, my leg started to spasm,

I got a cramp in the other leg. There IS something much stronger

about this particular technology.

Lizzie

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




     

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Many have been doing extra frying since Dec
.
ww.droiddog.com/android-blog/2010/12/verizon-wireless-4g-lte-launches-on-december-5th/



Verizon Wireless 4G LTE Initial Major Metropolitan Area Deployment (Dec. 5, 2010)
Akron, OhioAthens, GeorgiaAtlanta, GeorgiaBaltimore, MarylandBoston, MassachusettsCharlotte, North CarolinaChicago, IllinoisCincinnati, OhioCleveland, OhioColumbus, OhioDallas-Ft. Worth Metroplex, Dallas, TexasDenver, ColoradoFt. Lauderdale, FloridaHouston, TexasJacksonville, FloridaLas Vegas, NevadaLos Angeles, CaliforniaMiami, FloridaMinneapolis/Saint Paul, MinnesotaNashville, TennesseeNew Orleans, LouisianaNew York, New YorkOakland, CaliforniaOklahoma City, OklahomaOrlando, FloridaPhiladelphia, PennsylvaniaPhoenix, ArizonaPittsburgh, PennsylvaniaRochester, New YorkSan Antonio, TexasSan Diego, CaliforniaSan Francisco, CaliforniaSan Jose, CaliforniaSeattle/Tacoma, WashingtonSt. Louis, MissouriTampa, FloridaWashington, D.C.West Lafayette, IndianaWest Palm Beach, Florida


 



 










[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks Lizzie, I need some help. Loni

--- On Wed, 10/5/11, Elizabeth thode <[hidden email]> wrote:


From: Elizabeth thode <[hidden email]>
Subject: RE: [eSens] Questions regarding 4G LTE...Loni
To: [hidden email]
Date: Wednesday, October 5, 2011, 8:41 PM



 




Loni,
I'm so sorry. I will Reiki you tonite.
So if you feel a warm cocoon...that will be the Reiki power.
I have learned to tell my daughter ahead of time when I Reiki her...
so she doesn't freak out. Last week, I was working on her kidneys/adrenals-
I forgot to tell her ahead of time. She woke up and said she felt hands
on her back (kidney area). Oops. that was me dong the Reiki.
Lizzie


To: [hidden email]
From: [hidden email]
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2011 19:52:24 -0700
Subject: RE: [eSens] Questions regarding 4G LTE...

Yes Lizzie for sure; stronger. Much stronger! It is supposed to be 3 times more powerful than Wimax and that was supposed to reach every nook and cranny. Believe me when I cannot find one spot that looks quite remote to sleep safely without being fried.

I traveled 45 minutes away from my house to what looked to be in the mountains. And I parked by a big bush and put some foil in the window.

My skin still burnt and I felt electicuted. Then when I got up I of course was a zombie all day,.

I just want to warn everyone that this is for sure dangerous!

Loni

--- On Wed, 10/5/11, Elizabeth thode <[hidden email]> wrote:

From: Elizabeth thode <[hidden email]>
Subject: RE: [eSens] Questions regarding 4G LTE...
To: [hidden email]
Date: Wednesday, October 5, 2011, 3:40 PM

I recently went to my favorite health food store- they had just
activated the 4G LTE in Flint, Mi. Normally, I don't get an immed
reaction. Usually, I get the after affect of fatigue from 300
cell antennas in the area.
Upon reaching the city limits, my leg started to spasm,
I got a cramp in the other leg. There IS something much stronger
about this particular technology.
Lizzie

To: [hidden email]
From: [hidden email]
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2011 15:02:09 -0700
Subject: Re: [eSens] Questions regarding 4G LTE...

> 1. What makes it worse than other wireless tech?

I think we've merely been assuming that 4G LTE is worse than other
technologies, based on some of our members feeling worse recently.
I don't think we actually have any proof yet that this is indeed the
cause of them feeling worse, or what about it would be causing
that. Just some theories that the higher data rate and lower
carrier frequency might make it more harmful.

Marc

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On 10/5/2011 7:56 PM, Loni wrote:
> Marc; you are starting to sound like my husband.

I thought your husband was in denial that ES is a real
condition?  I doubt I will ever sound like that!

All I was trying to do is figure out whether 4G LTE is
the real cause of Lizzie's new symptoms, or if there
is some other EMF source that might be causing it.

Since there are online discussions about how
well everyone's 4G LTE phones work in Flint back in
June, I somehow doubt that someone would only be
noticing it in September.

Marc

Damn, look what the article says: "Every single Verizon tower will have LTE by 2013." Aaaah! Is there a way to find out if it's already where I am? (in Silver City, New Mexico?) I seem to be reacting a lot to 1 of the more powerful cell towers out here, even tho I only moved about 500 meters away from where I was before and am no closer to the tower itself, I feel it a lot more in the spot I'm in than where I was before (and no, I can't really do anything about that). 
Love & blessings,Elysia

--- On Wed, 10/5/11, KathyB <[hidden email]> wrote:

From: KathyB <[hidden email]>
Subject: RE: [eSens] Questions regarding 4G LTE...
To: [hidden email]
Date: Wednesday, October 5, 2011, 11:55 PM
















 



 


   
     
     
     



Many have been doing extra frying since Dec

.

ww.droiddog.com/android-blog/2010/12/verizon-wireless-4g-lte-launches-on-december-5th/



Verizon Wireless 4G LTE Initial Major Metropolitan Area Deployment (Dec. 5, 2010)

Akron, OhioAthens, GeorgiaAtlanta, GeorgiaBaltimore, MarylandBoston, MassachusettsCharlotte, North CarolinaChicago, IllinoisCincinnati, OhioCleveland, OhioColumbus, OhioDallas-Ft. Worth Metroplex, Dallas, TexasDenver, ColoradoFt. Lauderdale, FloridaHouston, TexasJacksonville, FloridaLas Vegas, NevadaLos Angeles, CaliforniaMiami, FloridaMinneapolis/Saint Paul, MinnesotaNashville, TennesseeNew Orleans, LouisianaNew York, New YorkOakland, CaliforniaOklahoma City, OklahomaOrlando, FloridaPhiladelphia, PennsylvaniaPhoenix, ArizonaPittsburgh, PennsylvaniaRochester, New YorkSan Antonio, TexasSan Diego, CaliforniaSan Francisco, CaliforniaSan Jose, CaliforniaSeattle/Tacoma, WashingtonSt. Louis, MissouriTampa, FloridaWashington, D.C.West Lafayette, IndianaWest Palm Beach, Florida



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





   
     

   
   






 










[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]