New to group with questions

Hi,

My name is Barbara Rubin and I am an old hand with chemical injury but a neophyte with electrical sensitivity. Today I had a major recurrence of this problem when trying to help a woman over the phone with her own problem. Some background:

I learned I have mild to moderate EMF problems when I was renting a home and they installed cable TV. I felt terrible in that room and gradually realized it was a different issue than chemical exposure. I purchased an EMF meter and found that cable raised EMF output on the TV by 5 milleguass and that my tolerance range was poor for anything over 3-4 at base. So cable was disconnected and all was well there for the rest of my tenancy (pipes burst and I was out of luck)

When I moved into New England, I met a woman in Ct who was having terrible EMF problems and seizures. I usually spoke to her briefly on my cell phone (ok for me with a headset) but one day I spoke to her on a landline. I got so sick from that connection that I was bedridden for days. I called someone knowledgeable in this because I thought I had gone crazy - problems over a phone? He called the woman and then got back to me with the same story. He got so sick on the connection that his wife had to take over and explained to the woman that she had to get an electrician over there right away. She learned that the house had never been electrically grounded! She was quite damaged from her years there but at least found relief from that discovery.

Current day: The woman I spoke with says Verizon came into her apartment building and every apartment had fiberoptic cables and a box installed in a closet. It will be controlling TV, telephone and internet. She says it gives off no EMF readings on her trifield meter (which works, I had her test it on appliances) but says her radio has static indicating it must be radio waves involved. They also installed cables beneath the floor and she lives on the ground floor. By the time we had spoken for a half hour, I was so ill I couldn't speak any longer and realized it was the phone - this time my cell phone, not a landline. From prior experience, I realize there is something terriblyr wrong over at her apt and am trying to figure out what she can do.

Should she have the placed checked in case grounding is disrupted since Verizon did their installation last January?

Should she call Verizon and tell them her problem, hoping they will respond properly and either remove the cables or shield them? She has lived in that apt for decades and relocating would be very hard on her, if not impossible.

Suggestions? Comments?

Barb Rubin


---------------------------------
Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> By the time we had spoken for a half hour, I was so ill I
> couldn't speak any longer and realized it was the phone

Hmmm, I have never heard of a problem where people cannot
tolerate being on the phone because of an electrical problem
on the other end of the line... has anyone heard of this?

> Should she call Verizon and tell them her problem, hoping they will
> respond properly and either remove the cables or shield them?

I suppose that in an ideal world, Verizon should remove everything
they installed. But given that this isn't likely, she'll probably
have to end up shielding it or using some type of EMF protection
device.

Marc (who has no experience with Verizon fiber optics)

Hi Barbara,
I'm afraid that if you have underlying sensitivity problems (MCS or similar)
and were talking continuously on a cell phone for half an hour, it is far
more likely that it is your cell phone which has damaged you, not anything
at her end. Sensitivity to telephones depends a lot on the type of the
receiver. For most ES people, cell phones and cordless phones are the
worst, landlines are better and best are landline phones with special
adaptations to keep the earpiece/mouthpiece magnets some distance away from
the user. A cellphone or cordless phone with a separate headset might be
better than a landline receiver up against your ear - but you are still in a
microwave field. If you have an underlying weakness, this can be triggered
or worsened at any time by prolonged exposure - so using a cellphone
successfully in the past is no guarantee it will not give you problems now.
There are testimonies from people who literally say they "felt something go
pop" and then became sensitive to equipment that they'd used without
problems for years.
Ian

_____  

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of B.R.
Sent: 30 April 2007 23:47
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [eSens] New to group with questions



Hi,

My name is Barbara Rubin and I am an old hand with chemical injury but a
neophyte with electrical sensitivity. Today I had a major recurrence of this
problem when trying to help a woman over the phone with her own problem.
Some background:

I learned I have mild to moderate EMF problems when I was renting a home and
they installed cable TV. I felt terrible in that room and gradually realized
it was a different issue than chemical exposure. I purchased an EMF meter
and found that cable raised EMF output on the TV by 5 milleguass and that my
tolerance range was poor for anything over 3-4 at base. So cable was
disconnected and all was well there for the rest of my tenancy (pipes burst
and I was out of luck)

When I moved into New England, I met a woman in Ct who was having terrible
EMF problems and seizures. I usually spoke to her briefly on my cell phone
(ok for me with a headset) but one day I spoke to her on a landline. I got
so sick from that connection that I was bedridden for days. I called someone
knowledgeable in this because I thought I had gone crazy - problems over a
phone? He called the woman and then got back to me with the same story. He
got so sick on the connection that his wife had to take over and explained
to the woman that she had to get an electrician over there right away. She
learned that the house had never been electrically grounded! She was quite
damaged from her years there but at least found relief from that discovery.

Current day: The woman I spoke with says Verizon came into her apartment
building and every apartment had fiberoptic cables and a box installed in a
closet. It will be controlling TV, telephone and internet. She says it gives
off no EMF readings on her trifield meter (which works, I had her test it on
appliances) but says her radio has static indicating it must be radio waves
involved. They also installed cables beneath the floor and she lives on the
ground floor. By the time we had spoken for a half hour, I was so ill I
couldn't speak any longer and realized it was the phone - this time my cell
phone, not a landline. From prior experience, I realize there is something
terriblyr wrong over at her apt and am trying to figure out what she can do.


Should she have the placed checked in case grounding is disrupted since
Verizon did their installation last January?

Should she call Verizon and tell them her problem, hoping they will respond
properly and either remove the cables or shield them? She has lived in that
apt for decades and relocating would be very hard on her, if not impossible.

Suggestions? Comments?

Barb Rubin

---------------------------------
Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Ian and Barb,
This is strange. I also have had MCS for years and now am recently becomingEMF sensitive. I
always felt like I had problems on the phone with people using cell phones but not landlines.
This is the first time, Barb, that anyone has ever relayed the experience of being affected by
something on the other end, as well. It seems highly improbable - almost impossible - but I
definitely feel a different energy when I talk to others on a cell phone through my phone. My
phone is through cable, by the way, and is through the electric lines (not phone line). Maybe
that has something to do with it...
FWIW
Julie

--- In [hidden email], "Ian Kemp" <ianandsue.kemp@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Barbara,
> I'm afraid that if you have underlying sensitivity problems (MCS or similar)
> and were talking continuously on a cell phone for half an hour, it is far
> more likely that it is your cell phone which has damaged you, not anything
> at her end. ...

> Ian

Hi, All,
   
Haven't been posting for a long time! My computer quit, and for well over 4 months I was without (a whole other subject--had real problems finding a new computer I could use). So when I returned, I just have been lurking rather than posting. I still have a little problem with using the computerat times. It has been good to see all the newbies (Hi!), and Andrew--happy to hear about your new treatments, and Ian--glad to hear Sue is still doing well.
   
The reason I am writing now is, I have also encountered the same thing Barbara has. Since I originally wrote her personally, I am copying what I wrote her on this subject:
   
"I do not know (have never heard of) the problem of the other person's grounding causing you problems thru the phone. However, I can attest to thishappening and I disagree with Ian's idea that this is just your MCS. I have a friend who is MCS and ES, and I am MCS and ES, and when she calls me on the phone I get a terrible headache and anxiety. It feels like I am being electrified. She does not report this on HER end. It is only me receiving this sensation. HOWEVER, it has hardly ever happened with anyone else but her. (I think I had it one other time with a Dell computer tech's call.) So I tend to think this has nothing to do with your MCS "acting up".  
   
For many years I had MCS and did not know I had ES (and probably didn't have "outright" ES--just some minor symptoms--actually was more like I had too much electricity or magnetc energy). After having a particularly bad pesticide exposure the beginning of last year, I now predictably react to cell and microwave towers badly and have problems with FM radio frequencies, cell phones, wifi connections, some computers, a DVD machine, and various other electronics and lights. However, the only time I have ever reacted to a landline (in a predictabe fashion) is with my MCS/ES friend. I think there HAS to be a connection somehow. Like I said, I don't have a clue why, just that it is." BTW, my friend's phone is a landline, too, so she is not talking on a cell phone like Julie says she can react to.
   
My 2 cents,
Diane


lunagirl32002 <[hidden email]> wrote: Hi Ian and Barb,
This is strange. I also have had MCS for years and now am recently becomingEMF sensitive. I
always felt like I had problems on the phone with people using cell phones but not landlines.
This is the first time, Barb, that anyone has ever relayed the experience of being affected by
something on the other end, as well. It seems highly improbable - almost impossible - but I
definitely feel a different energy when I talk to others on a cell phone through my phone. My
phone is through cable, by the way, and is through the electric lines (not phone line). Maybe
that has something to do with it...
FWIW
Julie

--- In [hidden email], "Ian Kemp" <ianandsue.kemp@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Barbara,
> I'm afraid that if you have underlying sensitivity problems (MCS or similar)
> and were talking continuously on a cell phone for half an hour, it is far
> more likely that it is your cell phone which has damaged you, not anything
> at her end. ...

> Ian



         

       
---------------------------------
Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> However, the only time I have ever reacted to a landline (in a
> predictabe fashion) is with my MCS/ES friend. I think there HAS to be
> a connection somehow. Like I said, I don't have a clue why, just that
> it is."

I guess this could be a *psychic* phenomenon... people do report being
drained by other people's negative energy, and people do report all
sorts of "remote" phenomenon (e.g., remote healing). So I guess you
could be reacting to the person on the other end when talking to them
on the phone.

Alternately, if one insists on an electrical explanation, perhaps there
is something unique about the path that the telephone transmission
goes through when you connect from one number to another?

One way to experiment with the above theories is to call that other
person when they (or you) are using an an alternate phone, and see
if you get the same reaction or not.

Marc

Well I have to say this is the first time anyone offered an
explanation of psychic phenomena as being more plausible than ES :))

I take a very empirical approach to things. I established my
chemical injury via toxicological testing of my body and my
environment on numerous occasions. The positive findings allowed me
to be properly diagnosed, receive disability etc. I was late in
believing about ES from the lack of literature but when I developed
signs of it, I bought a gauss meter and found regularities in my
experiences which were verifiable.  

With regard to my first experience of speaking on the phone with the
woman whose home hadn't been grounded, I also couldn't believe it
although others had refused to speak with me via my cell phone
(frequent homelessness left me with no alternative to having one)
for that reason. The experience was repeated by that third party
who has expertise in that area and then we confirmed the issues with
the home with professional electricians.

So, without stating absolute certainty here, I am reasonably sure
there are ES issues involved here. I have no intention of repeating
the experience with a land line or cell phone because the results
were so injurious to me and I am still feeling the effects somewhat.

So, I am glad I got to share the experience with you for your future
reference should others report such things. Obviously, no answers
but then that is the nature of emerging illness documentation. We
are the unfortunate souls who must be the pioneers, reluctant though
we may be.  

I had a letter to the editor published in the NY Times today about
the use of psychiatric diagnoses when medical explanations are not
readily forthcoming. It was a response to their sunday article on
brain injury due to chemotherapy. It seems no different than the
toxic encephalopathy I have so I wrote about it. ES gets a lot of
that due to anxiety symptoms of all that increased neuro activity so
I thought I would mention it (copy posted to my blog at
www.armchairactivist.us) Always nice to see mainstream media
receptive to the idea that the unknown needs to be explored rather
than explained away.

Thank you all for your thoughful input and let me know if you have
any further thoughts on the matter.

Regards,

Barbara
=================================


--- In [hidden email], "Marc Martin" <marc@...> wrote:
>
> I guess this could be a *psychic* phenomenon...

> Well I have to say this is the first time anyone offered an
> explanation of psychic phenomena as being more plausible than ES :))

Heh, heh... a little "thinking outside of the box" there... :-)
I once went to a psychic many years ago, and when I mentioned
that I had chronic fatigue syndrome/chemical sensitivity, she
said that usually gets a bad reaction to those sorts of people...

Another explanation is that you may be reacting to the audio digital
compression artifacts which may be used in cellphones, cable internet
phones, etc. Some people have problems listening to lossy audio
formats such as MP3 files, etc. When I got my first MP3 player,
I found that I could give myself a nasty headache if I used too much
compression.

Marc

Wow, thanks everyone for sharing your experiences and ideas. The more one
looks into it the stranger it gets, it seems.
 
Some further thoughts. Maybe we have two superimposing items here.
 
Firstly, using a cellphone or phone receiver just on its own does cause
problems for lots of ES people. In Sue's case she cannot be near a mobile
for more than a minute, let alone use one.
 
That being said, there could be a second effect from the other end, judging
from the experiences you've been reporting. It seems odd at first hearing,
but maybe there could be a reason. We can hear differences down the phone
line depending on what type is used at the other end - different tone,
signals "breaking up", even an echo in some cases. This means that the
frequency pattern must be different. And digital encoding could also change
things. I remember when CD's first came out there were complaints of
"digital edge" on remastered analogue recordings which took on a harsher,
less pleasant tone. So maybe the different frequency patterns and waveforms
could affect someone with ES more or less. This is just speculation on my
part, but it's at least a possibility. After all, we know that lots of ES
people react in different ways to slightly different light frequencies.
 
Not sure that this helps at all in solving the problem, but it might suggest
a possible "scientific" cause! To say nothing of all the other
possibilities...:-)
 
Ian

_____  

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Marc
Martin
Sent: 02 May 2007 19:42
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: New to group with questions



> Well I have to say this is the first time anyone offered an
> explanation of psychic phenomena as being more plausible than ES :))

Heh, heh... a little "thinking outside of the box" there... :-)
I once went to a psychic many years ago, and when I mentioned
that I had chronic fatigue syndrome/chemical sensitivity, she
said that usually gets a bad reaction to those sorts of people...

Another explanation is that you may be reacting to the audio digital
compression artifacts which may be used in cellphones, cable internet
phones, etc. Some people have problems listening to lossy audio
formats such as MP3 files, etc. When I got my first MP3 player,
I found that I could give myself a nasty headache if I used too much
compression.

Marc



 


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