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A very common problem with heavy long-term use of antibiotics (weeks or
months) is that they kill off all the good bacteria in the gut, with the result that you can't digest foods properly and get the nutrients out of them. Also, things like candida are no longer kept in balance, and can overpopulate and damage the gut. This damage can be very difficult to reverse and things start penetrating the gut wall that shouldn't do. The immune system then has to work overtime to deal with them, and gets both depleted and oversensitised. The liver chemicals also get overloaded and depleted in the same way. That is what happened to Sue - except she had only 2 months of antibiotics, compared with several months for you Marc? The result was that she ended up with chronic fatigue, i.e. severe exhaustion and unable to walk more than 100 yards. The fatigue largely disappeared after an anti-candida diet and probitoics, but Sue never felt fully right afterwards. After she got food sensitivities/allergies, MCS and ES problems, we did the leaky gut test, which showed significant long-term damage. So that's why I asked about whether you'd had the leaky gut test, Marc. Your history does sound as if you could have leaky gut as a result of the long-term antibiotics, and that would fit with the sensitivities. I haven't heard of heavy metals per se being in antibiotics - but the damage mechanism can increase all the sensitivities without any need for "high" levels. Ian _____ From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Marc Martin Sent: 21 June 2009 17:04 To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Marc's history > could it be that you have a very strong immune-response to metals? > Have you had the MELISA-test for metal-allergy done? (www.melisa.org) I have not had that particular test, however I did once have a blood test for compatibility with dental materials ("Clifford Materials Reactivity Testing"), and mercury did show up as being an allergen. It did not indicate HOW allergic I was, however. I don't think my reaction during chelation is really an "allergy"... I just think I'm easily overwhelmed, due to there simply being too much bad metals in me, and not enough of the good metals. My detox reactions don't seem to be abnormal compared with others on the "adult-metal- chelation" group, and in fact I'm less sensitive to ALA than some of them (and those people do NOT appear to have ES). As to how I got this way in the first place, well, the sensitivities took off after several months of antibiotics, so I have speculated that the antibiotics were either full of metals, or they did some liver damage that now makes me a poor excreter of metals (so they just build inside me without some additional help). Marc [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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In reply to this post by Ian Kemp
> So that's why I asked about whether you'd had the leaky gut test, Marc.
Hmmm, I seem to have had an infinite amount of irrelevant test, but I don't think I've had that one... :-) So hard to find a competent doctor, plus I find that every test has some way of producing false-negatives or false-positives. Marc |
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In reply to this post by evie15422
Hi Diane,
I'd definitely agree with you on the genetic component. Especially as we have now been able to get some further genetic tests done which show that Sue is missing a couple of key genes, including the one which controls the usual main pathway for glutathione production. That certainly fits with us having had to give Sue heavy IV doses of glutathione for the last 4 years, which has been a key factor in her improvement, but they wear off and need to be repeated. The snag is that these genetic tests are still pretty new, rare and expensive. In an ideal world, this new science of "pharmacogenetics" would be applied to test people before they were given long-term medication such as antidepressants, to see whether they were capable of metabolising them. But I think the medical profession in general (and the governments that might pay for the tests) are a long way from accepting that yet. There are a few cases of it being used (funnily enough, I saw a Readers Digest article on it some time back), but usually only after someone has shown a bad unexpeted side effect and they are trying to find out why. Ian _____ From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Evie Sent: 21 June 2009 17:47 To: [hidden email] Subject: RE: [eSens] Marc's history hi Ian, you wrote: "The big question for me is why people like you and Sue get ES, and I don't (nor lots of other people), despite sitting in front of a computer screen all day for 20+ years and never taking supplements." it seems there has to be a genetic component going on, don't you think? this is why i have thought tight junction permeability and ion channel dysfunction might be involved. about 25% of the population have the gene for this, which roughly corresponds with the number of people with ems, mcs, celiac disease,autism, cfs, and fms combined--and all of these disorders share commonalities. and, also, some of us start out with one of these and end up with all of them (except autism which is age specific). but even if tj/channel permeability turns out to not be involved, it is hard for me to believe there is not still some genetic difference. my 2 cents, d --- On Sat, 6/20/09, Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ <mailto:ianandsue.kemp%40ukgateway.net> ukgateway.net> wrote: From: Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ <mailto:ianandsue.kemp%40ukgateway.net> ukgateway.net> Subject: RE: [eSens] Marc's history To: eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens%40yahoogroups.com> com Date: Saturday, June 20, 2009, 11:08 PM Thanks Marc ... yes, it all figures. The big question for me is why people like you and Sue get ES, and I don't (nor lots of other people), despite sitting in front of a computer screen all day for 20+ years and never taking supplements. It seems to be a combination of several causes that gives too much "total load" on the body. I'd suggest that the prolonged antibiotic treatment would have been a huge factor; can't remember whether you've ever had a leaky gut test? Significant that your ES began soon after that.... Yes, lots of people seem to have had success with ALA for treating many of the chronic diseases like MCS and ES, if the root cause for them was something other than heavy metals. Ian _____ From: eSens@yahoogroups. com [mailto:eSens@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Marc Martin Sent: 20 June 2009 21:56 To: eSens@yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [eSens] Marc's history > I guess a big question is why you might have become ES in the first > place. As you know, I believe there is a root cause to all cases, and > it seems to be either (1) an underlying illness particularly in the > immune system, or (2) prolonged high exposure to EMF's Well, I've had pollen/dust/ cat allergies since I was a kid, I've had a computer related job (as in sitting all day in front of a computer) since the mid 1980's, I've had a mouthful of mercury amalgam fillings for many years (with no particular precautions during most of their removals), and then in the late 1990's I had all sorts of vaccines for overseas travel followed by many bouts of viral infections which the doctors repeatedly tried to treat with months and months of antibiotics. So pick your poison... :-) > All the very best with further treatment. I'm sure you'll be careful > with the alpha lipoic acid Oh yes, I've been reading some of the discussions on the "adult-metal- chelation", where ALA and DMSA seem to be the preferred metal chelators. They are extremely cautious there about dosage and timing of doses. And I do know of someone who used to be on this group who reportedly cured his ES mostly using ALA. I personally think my problem is mostly metals, given that I can hardly stand to take anything that mobilizes/chelates metals. Marc [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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In reply to this post by Marc Martin
Yes, there's a bewildering amount of tests out there, often at painful
prices, and then you have to interpret them :-( But I'd suggest the leaky gut test is one of the better ones to do - and it's relatively cheap as well. It was certainly one of the most useful ones for confirming likely causes for Sue's condition. Ian _____ From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Marc Martin Sent: 22 June 2009 00:27 To: [hidden email] Subject: RE: [eSens] Re: Marc's history > So that's why I asked about whether you'd had the leaky gut test, Marc. Hmmm, I seem to have had an infinite amount of irrelevant test, but I don't think I've had that one... :-) So hard to find a competent doctor, plus I find that every test has some way of producing false-negatives or false-positives. Marc [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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In reply to this post by PUK
I have tried both the Apex and Magnavox digital converter boxes. Both were unusable for me. Can anyone recommend a particular box or digital television (brand and model) that is tolerable. I realize that what works for one person may not for another.
John L. --- In [hidden email], paulpjc@... wrote: > > > In a message dated 19/06/2009 20:10:00 GMT Daylight Time, > marc@... writes: > > I noticed that others are currently discussing Digital TV box. Makes > > me sick too, have not switched it on in weeks. > > On the subject of the Digital TV conversion box, I have certainly had > reactions to a variety of newly purchased electronics over the > > > Paul uk - In my experience these boxes like most consumer electronic > devices vary in quality of build, the cheap ones that I have used have always > had very noisy power supply units and as a result they emit both radiatedand > conducted emisssions. Again an AM radio can demonstrate this.. |
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> I have tried both the Apex and Magnavox digital converter boxes. Both
> were unusable for me. Can anyone recommend a particular box or digital > television (brand and model) that is tolerable. I realize that what works > for one person may not for another. For what it's worth, I had no trouble with the Channel Master CM-7000. But for all I know, I may not have had any trouble with the ones you've already tried! Marc |
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In reply to this post by Marc Martin
I'm wondering about my RV. Have to get one for it & very concerned. Hmmmm. Loni
--- On Mon, 6/22/09, johnlankes <[hidden email]> wrote: From: johnlankes <[hidden email]> Subject: [eSens] Re: Digital TV box To: [hidden email] Date: Monday, June 22, 2009, 6:34 AM I have tried both the Apex and Magnavox digital converter boxes. Both were unusable for me. Can anyone recommend a particular box or digital television (brand and model) that is tolerable. I realize that what works for one person may not for another. John L. --- In eSens@yahoogroups. com, paulpjc@... wrote: > > > In a message dated 19/06/2009 20:10:00 GMT Daylight Time, > marc@... writes: > > I noticed that others are currently discussing Digital TV box. Makes > > me sick too, have not switched it on in weeks. > > On the subject of the Digital TV conversion box, I have certainly had > reactions to a variety of newly purchased electronics over the > > > Paul uk - In my experience these boxes like most consumer electronic > devices vary in quality of build, the cheap ones that I have used have always > had very noisy power supply units and as a result they emit both radiatedand > conducted emisssions. Again an AM radio can demonstrate this.. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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You wouldn't happen to be powering this converter/TV box or anything else in your RV using an inverter, would you? As in (sorry if you already know this) a device which converts direct current (ie, from a 12V RV battery) to 50/60 Hz alternating current such as what is used in a house...
Because inverters can create a lot of RF in the form of dirty electricity to do this! Anything I use in my trailer can be run off 12V DC, small batteries, propane, or I don't use it. Sorry if this isn't news to you! R. --- In [hidden email], Loni <loni326@...> wrote: > > I'm wondering about my RV. Have to get one for it & very concerned. Hmmmm. Loni > > --- On Mon, 6/22/09, johnlankes <johnlankes@...> wrote: > > > From: johnlankes <johnlankes@...> > Subject: [eSens] Re: Digital TV box > To: [hidden email] > Date: Monday, June 22, 2009, 6:34 AM > > > > > > > > > I have tried both the Apex and Magnavox digital converter boxes. Both were unusable for me. Can anyone recommend a particular box or digital television (brand and model) that is tolerable. I realize that what works for one person may not for another. > > John L. > > --- In eSens@yahoogroups. com, paulpjc@ wrote: > > > > > > In a message dated 19/06/2009 20:10:00 GMT Daylight Time, > > marc@ writes: > > > > I noticed that others are currently discussing Digital TV box. Makes > > > me sick too, have not switched it on in weeks. > > > > On the subject of the Digital TV conversion box, I have certainly had > > reactions to a variety of newly purchased electronics over the > > > > > > Paul uk - In my experience these boxes like most consumer electronic > > devices vary in quality of build, the cheap ones that I have used have always > > had very noisy power supply units and as a result they emit both radiated and > > conducted emisssions. Again an AM radio can demonstrate this.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > |
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In reply to this post by Ian Kemp
hi Ian,
interesting that Sue has missing genes for glutathione production. that would seriously compromise her ability to detox! good thing she was taking glutathione treatments! is her liver irreversibly bad or was she able to side step that by the iv glutathione treatments? they now do routine genetic testing for celiac disease here in the States if you ask for it, but alot of genetic tests are not yet available. for instance, i don't think you can yet get a test for tj permability. ifyou could, i wouldn't be in line tho, because i already know i have it (you cannot get celiac disease without that gene; which is why family members who share cd genes can have cd or not. ones who have cd also have the tjpermeability gene.) thanks for your input, diane --- On Sun, 6/21/09, Ian Kemp <[hidden email]> wrote: From: Ian Kemp <[hidden email]> Subject: RE: [eSens] Marc's history To: [hidden email] Date: Sunday, June 21, 2009, 7:32 PM Hi Diane, I'd definitely agree with you on the genetic component. Especially as we have now been able to get some further genetic tests done which show that Sue is missing a couple of key genes, including the one which controls the usual main pathway for glutathione production. That certainly fits with us having had to give Sue heavy IV doses of glutathione for the last 4 years, which has been a key factor in her improvement, but they wear off and need to be repeated. The snag is that these genetic tests are still pretty new, rare and expensive. In an ideal world, this new science of "pharmacogenetics" would be applied to test people before they were given long-term medication such as antidepressants, to see whether they were capable of metabolising them. But I think the medical profession in general (and the governments that might pay for the tests) are a long way from accepting that yet. There are a few cases of it being used (funnily enough, I saw a Readers Digest article on it some time back), but usually only after someone has shown a bad unexpeted side effect and they are trying to find out why. Ian _____ From: eSens@yahoogroups. com [mailto:eSens@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Evie Sent: 21 June 2009 17:47 To: eSens@yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [eSens] Marc's history hi Ian, you wrote: "The big question for me is why people like you and Sue get ES, and I don't (nor lots of other people), despite sitting in front of a computer screen all day for 20+ years and never taking supplements. " it seems there has to be a genetic component going on, don't you think? this is why i have thought tight junction permeability and ion channel dysfunction might be involved. about 25% of the population have the gene for this, which roughly corresponds with the number of people with ems, mcs, celiac disease,autism, cfs, and fms combined--and all of these disorders share commonalities. and, also, some of us start out with one of these and end up with all of them (except autism which is age specific). but even if tj/channel permeability turns out to not be involved, it is hard for me to believe there is not still some genetic difference. my 2 cents, d --- On Sat, 6/20/09, Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ <mailto:ianandsue. kemp%40ukgateway .net> ukgateway.net> wrote: From: Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ <mailto:ianandsue. kemp%40ukgateway .net> ukgateway.net> Subject: RE: [eSens] Marc's history To: eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens% 40yahoogroups. com> com Date: Saturday, June 20, 2009, 11:08 PM Thanks Marc ... yes, it all figures. The big question for me is why people like you and Sue get ES, and I don't (nor lots of other people), despite sitting in front of a computer screen all day for 20+ years and never taking supplements. It seems to be a combination of several causes that gives too much "total load" on the body. I'd suggest that the prolonged antibiotic treatment would have been a huge factor; can't remember whether you've ever had a leaky gut test? Significant that your ES began soon after that.... Yes, lots of people seem to have had success with ALA for treating many of the chronic diseases like MCS and ES, if the root cause for them was something other than heavy metals. Ian _____ From: eSens@yahoogroups. com [mailto:eSens@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Marc Martin Sent: 20 June 2009 21:56 To: eSens@yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [eSens] Marc's history > I guess a big question is why you might have become ES in the first > place. As you know, I believe there is a root cause to all cases, and > it seems to be either (1) an underlying illness particularly in the > immune system, or (2) prolonged high exposure to EMF's Well, I've had pollen/dust/ cat allergies since I was a kid, I've had a computer related job (as in sitting all day in front of a computer) since the mid 1980's, I've had a mouthful of mercury amalgam fillings for many years (with no particular precautions during most of their removals), and then in the late 1990's I had all sorts of vaccines for overseas travel followed by many bouts of viral infections which the doctors repeatedly tried to treat with months and months of antibiotics. So pick your poison... :-) > All the very best with further treatment. I'm sure you'll be careful > with the alpha lipoic acid Oh yes, I've been reading some of the discussions on the "adult-metal- chelation", where ALA and DMSA seem to be the preferred metal chelators. They are extremely cautious there about dosage and timing of doses. And I do know of someone who used to be on this group who reportedly cured his ES mostly using ALA. I personally think my problem is mostly metals, given that I can hardly stand to take anything that mobilizes/chelates metals. Marc [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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In reply to this post by Ian Kemp
leaky gut, i believe, is another tj permeability indicator, Ian. leaky gut is like a kissing cousin of celiac disease.
d --- On Sun, 6/21/09, Ian Kemp <[hidden email]> wrote: From: Ian Kemp <[hidden email]> Subject: RE: [eSens] Re: Marc's history To: [hidden email] Date: Sunday, June 21, 2009, 7:41 PM Yes, there's a bewildering amount of tests out there, often at painful prices, and then you have to interpret them :-( But I'd suggest the leaky gut test is one of the better ones to do - and it's relatively cheap as well. It was certainly one of the most useful ones for confirming likely causes for Sue's condition. Ian _____ From: eSens@yahoogroups. com [mailto:eSens@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Marc Martin Sent: 22 June 2009 00:27 To: eSens@yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [eSens] Re: Marc's history > So that's why I asked about whether you'd had the leaky gut test, Marc. Hmmm, I seem to have had an infinite amount of irrelevant test, but I don't think I've had that one... :-) So hard to find a competent doctor, plus I find that every test has some way of producing false-negatives or false-positives. Marc [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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In reply to this post by Ian Kemp
I have leaky gut & it is a fairly inexpensive test although it's been a while since I had the last one done. Loni
--- On Tue, 6/23/09, Evie <[hidden email]> wrote: From: Evie <[hidden email]> Subject: RE: [eSens] Re: Marc's history To: [hidden email] Date: Tuesday, June 23, 2009, 1:52 PM leaky gut, i believe, is another tj permeability indicator, Ian. leaky gut is like a kissing cousin of celiac disease. d --- On Sun, 6/21/09, Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ ukgateway. net> wrote: From: Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ ukgateway. net> Subject: RE: [eSens] Re: Marc's history To: eSens@yahoogroups. com Date: Sunday, June 21, 2009, 7:41 PM Yes, there's a bewildering amount of tests out there, often at painful prices, and then you have to interpret them :-( But I'd suggest the leaky gut test is one of the better ones to do - and it's relatively cheap as well. It was certainly one of the most useful ones for confirming likely causes for Sue's condition. Ian _____ From: eSens@yahoogroups. com [mailto:eSens@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Marc Martin Sent: 22 June 2009 00:27 To: eSens@yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [eSens] Re: Marc's history > So that's why I asked about whether you'd had the leaky gut test, Marc. Hmmm, I seem to have had an infinite amount of irrelevant test, but I don't think I've had that one... :-) So hard to find a competent doctor, plus I find that every test has some way of producing false-negatives or false-positives. Marc [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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In reply to this post by Marc Martin
In a message dated 23/06/2009 17:07:51 GMT Daylight Time, [hidden email] writes: I'm wondering about my RV. Have to get one for it & very concerned. Hmmmm. Loni you can get really small ones that fit into tv as a scart conection thay might be a good route [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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In reply to this post by Marc Martin
Ok thanks
--- On Thu, 6/25/09, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote: From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Digital TV box To: [hidden email] Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 2:38 AM In a message dated 23/06/2009 17:07:51 GMT Daylight Time, loni326@yahoo. com writes: I'm wondering about my RV. Have to get one for it & very concerned. Hmmmm. Loni you can get really small ones that fit into tv as a scart conection thay might be a good route [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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In reply to this post by evie15422
Hi Diane,
Sue's liver itself is OK - it always came out all right on the basic NHS (UK) tests which identify serious cell damage due to cirrhosis etc. It is just the metabolic chemicals that are missing. So she was able to function for 40 years with no sign of the underlying problems, and, thank goodness, is also considerably better now that her glutathione and sulphate levels have been restored - so any damage caused has (mainly) been reversible. Ian _____ From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Evie Sent: 23 June 2009 21:50 To: [hidden email] Subject: RE: [eSens] Marc's history hi Ian, interesting that Sue has missing genes for glutathione production. that would seriously compromise her ability to detox! good thing she was taking glutathione treatments! is her liver irreversibly bad or was she able to side step that by the iv glutathione treatments? they now do routine genetic testing for celiac disease here in the States if you ask for it, but alot of genetic tests are not yet available. for instance, i don't think you can yet get a test for tj permability. if you could, i wouldn't be in line tho, because i already know i have it (you cannot get celiac disease without that gene; which is why family members who share cd genes can have cd or not. ones who have cd also have the tj permeability gene.) thanks for your input, diane --- On Sun, 6/21/09, Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ <mailto:ianandsue.kemp%40ukgateway.net> ukgateway.net> wrote: From: Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ <mailto:ianandsue.kemp%40ukgateway.net> ukgateway.net> Subject: RE: [eSens] Marc's history To: eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens%40yahoogroups.com> com Date: Sunday, June 21, 2009, 7:32 PM Hi Diane, I'd definitely agree with you on the genetic component. Especially as we have now been able to get some further genetic tests done which show that Sue is missing a couple of key genes, including the one which controls the usual main pathway for glutathione production. That certainly fits with us having had to give Sue heavy IV doses of glutathione for the last 4 years, which has been a key factor in her improvement, but they wear off and need to be repeated. The snag is that these genetic tests are still pretty new, rare and expensive. In an ideal world, this new science of "pharmacogenetics" would be applied to test people before they were given long-term medication such as antidepressants, to see whether they were capable of metabolising them. But I think the medical profession in general (and the governments that might pay for the tests) are a long way from accepting that yet. There are a few cases of it being used (funnily enough, I saw a Readers Digest article on it some time back), but usually only after someone has shown a bad unexpeted side effect and they are trying to find out why. Ian _____ From: eSens@yahoogroups. com [mailto:eSens@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Evie Sent: 21 June 2009 17:47 To: eSens@yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [eSens] Marc's history hi Ian, you wrote: "The big question for me is why people like you and Sue get ES, and I don't (nor lots of other people), despite sitting in front of a computer screen all day for 20+ years and never taking supplements. " it seems there has to be a genetic component going on, don't you think? this is why i have thought tight junction permeability and ion channel dysfunction might be involved. about 25% of the population have the gene for this, which roughly corresponds with the number of people with ems, mcs, celiac disease,autism, cfs, and fms combined--and all of these disorders share commonalities. and, also, some of us start out with one of these and end up with all of them (except autism which is age specific). but even if tj/channel permeability turns out to not be involved, it is hard for me to believe there is not still some genetic difference. my 2 cents, d --- On Sat, 6/20/09, Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ <mailto:ianandsue. kemp%40ukgateway .net> ukgateway.net> wrote: From: Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ <mailto:ianandsue. kemp%40ukgateway .net> ukgateway.net> Subject: RE: [eSens] Marc's history To: eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens% 40yahoogroups. com> com Date: Saturday, June 20, 2009, 11:08 PM Thanks Marc ... yes, it all figures. The big question for me is why people like you and Sue get ES, and I don't (nor lots of other people), despite sitting in front of a computer screen all day for 20+ years and never taking supplements. It seems to be a combination of several causes that gives too much "total load" on the body. I'd suggest that the prolonged antibiotic treatment would have been a huge factor; can't remember whether you've ever had a leaky gut test? Significant that your ES began soon after that.... Yes, lots of people seem to have had success with ALA for treating many of the chronic diseases like MCS and ES, if the root cause for them was something other than heavy metals. Ian _____ From: eSens@yahoogroups. com [mailto:eSens@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Marc Martin Sent: 20 June 2009 21:56 To: eSens@yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [eSens] Marc's history > I guess a big question is why you might have become ES in the first > place. As you know, I believe there is a root cause to all cases, and > it seems to be either (1) an underlying illness particularly in the > immune system, or (2) prolonged high exposure to EMF's Well, I've had pollen/dust/ cat allergies since I was a kid, I've had a computer related job (as in sitting all day in front of a computer) since the mid 1980's, I've had a mouthful of mercury amalgam fillings for many years (with no particular precautions during most of their removals), and then in the late 1990's I had all sorts of vaccines for overseas travel followed by many bouts of viral infections which the doctors repeatedly tried to treat with months and months of antibiotics. So pick your poison... :-) > All the very best with further treatment. I'm sure you'll be careful > with the alpha lipoic acid Oh yes, I've been reading some of the discussions on the "adult-metal- chelation", where ALA and DMSA seem to be the preferred metal chelators. They are extremely cautious there about dosage and timing of doses. And I do know of someone who used to be on this group who reportedly cured his ES mostly using ALA. I personally think my problem is mostly metals, given that I can hardly stand to take anything that mobilizes/chelates metals. Marc [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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hi, Ian,
that is great to hear! and very encouraging. it is amazing what the body can heal from with the right nutrition. glad to hear Sue is doing somuch better. give her my best wishes on continued improvement, diane --- On Sat, 6/27/09, Ian Kemp <[hidden email]> wrote: From: Ian Kemp <[hidden email]> Subject: RE: [eSens] Sue's history To: [hidden email] Date: Saturday, June 27, 2009, 8:04 PM Hi Diane, Sue's liver itself is OK - it always came out all right on the basic NHS (UK) tests which identify serious cell damage due to cirrhosis etc. It is just the metabolic chemicals that are missing. So she was able to function for 40 years with no sign of the underlying problems, and, thank goodness, is also considerably better now that her glutathione and sulphate levels have been restored - so any damage caused has (mainly) been reversible. Ian _____ From: eSens@yahoogroups. com [mailto:eSens@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Evie Sent: 23 June 2009 21:50 To: eSens@yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [eSens] Marc's history hi Ian, interesting that Sue has missing genes for glutathione production. that would seriously compromise her ability to detox! good thing she was taking glutathione treatments! is her liver irreversibly bad or was she able to side step that by the iv glutathione treatments? they now do routine genetic testing for celiac disease here in the States if you ask for it, but alot of genetic tests are not yet available. for instance, i don't think you can yet get a test for tj permability. if you could, i wouldn't be in line tho, because i already know i have it (you cannot get celiac disease without that gene; which is why family members who share cd genes can have cd or not. ones who have cd also have the tj permeability gene.) thanks for your input, diane --- On Sun, 6/21/09, Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ <mailto:ianandsue. kemp%40ukgateway .net> ukgateway.net> wrote: From: Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ <mailto:ianandsue. kemp%40ukgateway .net> ukgateway.net> Subject: RE: [eSens] Marc's history To: eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens% 40yahoogroups. com> com Date: Sunday, June 21, 2009, 7:32 PM Hi Diane, I'd definitely agree with you on the genetic component. Especially as we have now been able to get some further genetic tests done which show that Sue is missing a couple of key genes, including the one which controls the usual main pathway for glutathione production. That certainly fits with us having had to give Sue heavy IV doses of glutathione for the last 4 years, which has been a key factor in her improvement, but they wear off and need to be repeated. The snag is that these genetic tests are still pretty new, rare and expensive. In an ideal world, this new science of "pharmacogenetics" would be applied to test people before they were given long-term medication such as antidepressants, to see whether they were capable of metabolising them. But I think the medical profession in general (and the governments that might pay for the tests) are a long way from accepting that yet. There are a few cases of it being used (funnily enough, I saw a Readers Digest article on it some time back), but usually only after someone has shown a bad unexpeted side effect and they are trying to find out why. Ian _____ From: eSens@yahoogroups. com [mailto:eSens@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Evie Sent: 21 June 2009 17:47 To: eSens@yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [eSens] Marc's history hi Ian, you wrote: "The big question for me is why people like you and Sue get ES, and I don't (nor lots of other people), despite sitting in front of a computer screen all day for 20+ years and never taking supplements. " it seems there has to be a genetic component going on, don't you think? this is why i have thought tight junction permeability and ion channel dysfunction might be involved. about 25% of the population have the gene for this, which roughly corresponds with the number of people with ems, mcs, celiac disease,autism, cfs, and fms combined--and all of these disorders share commonalities. and, also, some of us start out with one of these and end up with all of them (except autism which is age specific). but even if tj/channel permeability turns out to not be involved, it is hard for me to believe there is not still some genetic difference. my 2 cents, d --- On Sat, 6/20/09, Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ <mailto:ianandsue. kemp%40ukgateway .net> ukgateway.net> wrote: From: Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ <mailto:ianandsue. kemp%40ukgateway .net> ukgateway.net> Subject: RE: [eSens] Marc's history To: eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens% 40yahoogroups. com> com Date: Saturday, June 20, 2009, 11:08 PM Thanks Marc ... yes, it all figures. The big question for me is why people like you and Sue get ES, and I don't (nor lots of other people), despite sitting in front of a computer screen all day for 20+ years and never taking supplements. It seems to be a combination of several causes that gives too much "total load" on the body. I'd suggest that the prolonged antibiotic treatment would have been a huge factor; can't remember whether you've ever had a leaky gut test? Significant that your ES began soon after that.... Yes, lots of people seem to have had success with ALA for treating many of the chronic diseases like MCS and ES, if the root cause for them was something other than heavy metals. Ian _____ From: eSens@yahoogroups. com [mailto:eSens@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Marc Martin Sent: 20 June 2009 21:56 To: eSens@yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [eSens] Marc's history > I guess a big question is why you might have become ES in the first > place. As you know, I believe there is a root cause to all cases, and > it seems to be either (1) an underlying illness particularly in the > immune system, or (2) prolonged high exposure to EMF's Well, I've had pollen/dust/ cat allergies since I was a kid, I've had a computer related job (as in sitting all day in front of a computer) since the mid 1980's, I've had a mouthful of mercury amalgam fillings for many years (with no particular precautions during most of their removals), and then in the late 1990's I had all sorts of vaccines for overseas travel followed by many bouts of viral infections which the doctors repeatedly tried to treat with months and months of antibiotics. So pick your poison... :-) > All the very best with further treatment. I'm sure you'll be careful > with the alpha lipoic acid Oh yes, I've been reading some of the discussions on the "adult-metal- chelation", where ALA and DMSA seem to be the preferred metal chelators. They are extremely cautious there about dosage and timing of doses. And I do know of someone who used to be on this group who reportedly cured his ES mostly using ALA. I personally think my problem is mostly metals, given that I can hardly stand to take anything that mobilizes/chelates metals. Marc [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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In reply to this post by Ian Kemp
Hi Ian: I have the missing genes for glutathione according to the NutriGenomics testing from Genova. I have been raising glutathione gently and slowly for a year now, taking ImmunoPro, Vit C + selenium. I would like to have the Glut IV. But, as you mnetioned it is short lasting. From what I read, the effects only last 4 hours, then it goes down again. How often did she do the IV glut? Did she test her glut level after stopping Glut IV a few months later? Also, how does that work, if I have the missing gene for glutathione? Lstly, do you of a good MD in London, UK, who administers Glut IV? Many thanks Kooky --- In [hidden email], "Ian Kemp" <ianandsue.kemp@...> wrote: > > Hi Diane, > > Sue's liver itself is OK - it always came out all right on the basic NHS > (UK) tests which identify serious cell damage due to cirrhosis etc. It is > just the metabolic chemicals that are missing. So she was able to function > for 40 years with no sign of the underlying problems, and, thank goodness, > is also considerably better now that her glutathione and sulphate levels > have been restored - so any damage caused has (mainly) been reversible. > > Ian > > _____ > > From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Evie > Sent: 23 June 2009 21:50 > To: [hidden email] > Subject: RE: [eSens] Marc's history > > > > > > hi Ian, > > interesting that Sue has missing genes for glutathione production. that > would seriously compromise her ability to detox! good thing she was taking > glutathione treatments! is her liver irreversibly bad or was she able to > side step that by the iv glutathione treatments? > > they now do routine genetic testing for celiac disease here in the Statesif > you ask for it, but alot of genetic tests are not yet available. for > instance, i don't think you can yet get a test for tj permability. if you > could, i wouldn't be in line tho, because i already know i have it (you > cannot get celiac disease without that gene; which is why family members who > share cd genes can have cd or not. ones who have cd also have the tj > permeability gene.) > > thanks for your input, > diane > > --- On Sun, 6/21/09, Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ > <mailto:ianandsue.kemp%40ukgateway.net> ukgateway.net> wrote: > > From: Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ <mailto:ianandsue.kemp%40ukgateway.net> > ukgateway.net> > Subject: RE: [eSens] Marc's history > To: eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens%40yahoogroups.com> com > Date: Sunday, June 21, 2009, 7:32 PM > > Hi Diane, > > I'd definitely agree with you on the genetic component. Especially as we > have now been able to get some further genetic tests done which show that > Sue is missing a couple of key genes, including the one which controls the > usual main pathway for glutathione production. That certainly fits with us > having had to give Sue heavy IV doses of glutathione for the last 4 years, > which has been a key factor in her improvement, but they wear off and need > to be repeated. > > The snag is that these genetic tests are still pretty new, rare and > expensive. In an ideal world, this new science of "pharmacogenetics" would > be applied to test people before they were given long-term medication such > as antidepressants, to see whether they were capable of metabolising them. > But I think the medical profession in general (and the governments that > might pay for the tests) are a long way from accepting that yet. There are > a few cases of it being used (funnily enough, I saw a Readers Digest article > on it some time back), but usually only after someone has shown a bad > unexpeted side effect and they are trying to find out why. > > Ian > > _____ > > From: eSens@yahoogroups. com [mailto:eSens@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of > Evie > Sent: 21 June 2009 17:47 > To: eSens@yahoogroups. com > Subject: RE: [eSens] Marc's history > > hi Ian, > > you wrote: "The big question for me is why people > like you and Sue get ES, and I don't (nor lots of other people), despite > sitting in front of a computer screen all day for 20+ years and never taking > supplements. " > > it seems there has to be a genetic component going on, don't you think? > this is why i have thought tight junction permeability and ion channel > dysfunction might be involved. about 25% of the population have the gene > for this, which roughly corresponds with the number of people with ems, mcs, > celiac disease,autism, cfs, and fms combined--and all of these disorders > share commonalities. and, also, some of us start out with one of these and > end up with all of them (except autism which is age specific). but even if > tj/channel permeability turns out to not be involved, it is hard for me to > believe there is not still some genetic difference. > > my 2 cents, > d > > --- On Sat, 6/20/09, Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ > <mailto:ianandsue. kemp%40ukgateway .net> ukgateway.net> wrote: > > From: Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ <mailto:ianandsue. kemp%40ukgateway .net> > ukgateway.net> > Subject: RE: [eSens] Marc's history > To: eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens% 40yahoogroups. com> com > Date: Saturday, June 20, 2009, 11:08 PM > > Thanks Marc ... yes, it all figures. The big question for me is why people > like you and Sue get ES, and I don't (nor lots of other people), despite > sitting in front of a computer screen all day for 20+ years and never taking > supplements. It seems to be a combination of several causes that gives too > much "total load" on the body. I'd suggest that the prolonged antibiotic > treatment would have been a huge factor; can't remember whether you've ever > had a leaky gut test? Significant that your ES began soon after that.... > > Yes, lots of people seem to have had success with ALA for treating many of > the chronic diseases like MCS and ES, if the root cause for them was > something other than heavy metals. > > Ian > > _____ > > From: eSens@yahoogroups. com [mailto:eSens@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of > Marc > Martin > Sent: 20 June 2009 21:56 > To: eSens@yahoogroups. com > Subject: RE: [eSens] Marc's history > > > I guess a big question is why you might have become ES in the first > > place. As you know, I believe there is a root cause to all cases, and > > it seems to be either (1) an underlying illness particularly in the > > immune system, or (2) prolonged high exposure to EMF's > > Well, I've had pollen/dust/ cat allergies since I was a kid, I've had > a computer related job (as in sitting all day in front of a computer) > since the mid 1980's, I've had a mouthful of mercury amalgam fillings for > many years (with no particular precautions during most of their > removals), and then in the late 1990's I had all sorts of vaccines for > overseas travel followed by many bouts of viral infections which the > doctors repeatedly tried to treat with months and months of antibiotics. > So pick your poison... :-) > > > All the very best with further treatment. I'm sure you'll be careful > > with the alpha lipoic acid > > Oh yes, I've been reading some of the discussions on the "adult-metal- > chelation", where ALA and DMSA seem to be the preferred metal chelators. > They are extremely cautious there about dosage and timing of doses. And > I do know of someone who used to be on this group who reportedly cured > his ES mostly using ALA. > > I personally think my problem is mostly metals, given that I can > hardly stand to take anything that mobilizes/chelates metals. > > Marc > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > |
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Hi Kooky,
Sue's missing gene is GSTM-1, but we didn't know this until a couple of years after the glutathione IV treatments started - we just found that they worked! Sue's glutathione showed up low in a test (incidentally this seems quite a tricky test to interpet, the levels did not look that low compared with the reference but the doctor felt they were very bad and strongly recommended glute). She started by taking about one IV glutathione per week, along with a cocktail of other items including B vitamins and magnesium sulphate (both her Mg and sulphate were very low). After the initial improvement she was able to drop to one a month and has sometimes been able to leave it several months. The relief is not just short-term - she can feel the difference immediately but it then continues, and if she starts getting MCS symptoms she knows it's time for a "top-up", after which she can always feel that she is able to detoxify things better. Unfortunately not many doctors or therapists have the facilities for IV treatment. We go to the Breakspear Hospital (private) in Hemel Hempstead, so that's 20 miles north of London - not aware of anyone else in the area that does it. An alternative to IV is inhale glutathione using a nebuliser (like for asthma); Sue is about to try this. Breakspear suggest it as an alternative and it is also recommended by Dr Martin Pall in his book on "Explaining Unexplained Illnesses" (very heavy going, but certainly comprehensive and scientific). He also feels that reduced glutathione taken orally is ineffective because it gets rapidly destroyed in the gut - although some therapists suggest that even if only 10% survives long enough, it could still have a beneficial effect. We know quite a lot of patients at Breakspear who have had benefits from glutathione. Marc's the first person I've heard of who has had a negative reaction but - we are all different. Just because a treatment works for most people doesn't mean it fits your particular metabolism. For example, Sue reacts badly to B12 and folic acid which are normally beneficial for most people. Also, Breakspear offer a very wide range of treatments and tests, but these can be very expensive, so watch your budget! Ian _____ From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of furstc0404 Sent: 30 June 2009 11:06 To: [hidden email] Subject: [eSens] Re: Sue's history Hi Ian: I have the missing genes for glutathione according to the NutriGenomics testing from Genova. I have been raising glutathione gently and slowly for a year now, taking ImmunoPro, Vit C + selenium. I would like to have the Glut IV. But, as you mnetioned it is short lasting. From what I read, the effects only last 4 hours, then it goes down again. How often did she do the IV glut? Did she test her glut level after stopping Glut IV a few months later? Also, how does that work, if I have the missing gene for glutathione? Lstly, do you of a good MD in London, UK, who administers Glut IV? Many thanks Kooky --- In eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens%40yahoogroups.com> com, "Ian Kemp" <ianandsue.kemp@...> wrote: > > Hi Diane, > > Sue's liver itself is OK - it always came out all right on the basic NHS > (UK) tests which identify serious cell damage due to cirrhosis etc. It is > just the metabolic chemicals that are missing. So she was able to function > for 40 years with no sign of the underlying problems, and, thank goodness, > is also considerably better now that her glutathione and sulphate levels > have been restored - so any damage caused has (mainly) been reversible. > > Ian > > _____ > > From: eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens%40yahoogroups.com> com Of Evie > Sent: 23 June 2009 21:50 > To: eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens%40yahoogroups.com> com > Subject: RE: [eSens] Marc's history > > > > > > hi Ian, > > interesting that Sue has missing genes for glutathione production. that > would seriously compromise her ability to detox! good thing she was taking > glutathione treatments! is her liver irreversibly bad or was she able to > side step that by the iv glutathione treatments? > > they now do routine genetic testing for celiac disease here in the States > you ask for it, but alot of genetic tests are not yet available. for > instance, i don't think you can yet get a test for tj permability. if you > could, i wouldn't be in line tho, because i already know i have it (you > cannot get celiac disease without that gene; which is why family members who > share cd genes can have cd or not. ones who have cd also have the tj > permeability gene.) > > thanks for your input, > diane > > --- On Sun, 6/21/09, Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ > <mailto:ianandsue.kemp%40ukgateway.net> ukgateway.net> wrote: > > From: Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ <mailto:ianandsue.kemp%40ukgateway.net> > ukgateway.net> > Subject: RE: [eSens] Marc's history > To: eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens%40yahoogroups.com> com > Date: Sunday, June 21, 2009, 7:32 PM > > Hi Diane, > > I'd definitely agree with you on the genetic component. Especially as we > have now been able to get some further genetic tests done which show that > Sue is missing a couple of key genes, including the one which controls the > usual main pathway for glutathione production. That certainly fits with us > having had to give Sue heavy IV doses of glutathione for the last 4 years, > which has been a key factor in her improvement, but they wear off and need > to be repeated. > > The snag is that these genetic tests are still pretty new, rare and > expensive. In an ideal world, this new science of "pharmacogenetics" would > be applied to test people before they were given long-term medication such > as antidepressants, to see whether they were capable of metabolising them. > But I think the medical profession in general (and the governments that > might pay for the tests) are a long way from accepting that yet. There are > a few cases of it being used (funnily enough, I saw a Readers Digest > on it some time back), but usually only after someone has shown a bad > unexpeted side effect and they are trying to find out why. > > Ian > > _____ > > From: eSens@yahoogroups. com [mailto:eSens@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of > Evie > Sent: 21 June 2009 17:47 > To: eSens@yahoogroups. com > Subject: RE: [eSens] Marc's history > > hi Ian, > > you wrote: "The big question for me is why people > like you and Sue get ES, and I don't (nor lots of other people), despite > sitting in front of a computer screen all day for 20+ years and never > supplements. " > > it seems there has to be a genetic component going on, don't you think? > this is why i have thought tight junction permeability and ion channel > dysfunction might be involved. about 25% of the population have the gene > for this, which roughly corresponds with the number of people with ems, mcs, > celiac disease,autism, cfs, and fms combined--and all of these disorders > share commonalities. and, also, some of us start out with one of these and > end up with all of them (except autism which is age specific). but even if > tj/channel permeability turns out to not be involved, it is hard for me to > believe there is not still some genetic difference. > > my 2 cents, > d > > --- On Sat, 6/20/09, Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ > <mailto:ianandsue. kemp%40ukgateway .net> ukgateway.net> wrote: > > From: Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ <mailto:ianandsue. kemp%40ukgateway .net> > ukgateway.net> > Subject: RE: [eSens] Marc's history > To: eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens% 40yahoogroups. com> com > Date: Saturday, June 20, 2009, 11:08 PM > > Thanks Marc ... yes, it all figures. The big question for me is why people > like you and Sue get ES, and I don't (nor lots of other people), despite > sitting in front of a computer screen all day for 20+ years and never > supplements. It seems to be a combination of several causes that gives too > much "total load" on the body. I'd suggest that the prolonged antibiotic > treatment would have been a huge factor; can't remember whether you've ever > had a leaky gut test? Significant that your ES began soon after that.... > > Yes, lots of people seem to have had success with ALA for treating many of > the chronic diseases like MCS and ES, if the root cause for them was > something other than heavy metals. > > Ian > > _____ > > From: eSens@yahoogroups. com [mailto:eSens@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of > Marc > Martin > Sent: 20 June 2009 21:56 > To: eSens@yahoogroups. com > Subject: RE: [eSens] Marc's history > > > I guess a big question is why you might have become ES in the first > > place. As you know, I believe there is a root cause to all cases, and > > it seems to be either (1) an underlying illness particularly in the > > immune system, or (2) prolonged high exposure to EMF's > > Well, I've had pollen/dust/ cat allergies since I was a kid, I've had > a computer related job (as in sitting all day in front of a computer) > since the mid 1980's, I've had a mouthful of mercury amalgam fillings for > many years (with no particular precautions during most of their > removals), and then in the late 1990's I had all sorts of vaccines for > overseas travel followed by many bouts of viral infections which the > doctors repeatedly tried to treat with months and months of antibiotics. > So pick your poison... :-) > > > All the very best with further treatment. I'm sure you'll be careful > > with the alpha lipoic acid > > Oh yes, I've been reading some of the discussions on the "adult-metal- > chelation", where ALA and DMSA seem to be the preferred metal chelators. > They are extremely cautious there about dosage and timing of doses. And > I do know of someone who used to be on this group who reportedly cured > his ES mostly using ALA. > > I personally think my problem is mostly metals, given that I can > hardly stand to take anything that mobilizes/chelates metals. > > Marc > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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from my experience, IV glutathione added to the EDTA chelation IV protocol was much easier on me then taking ALA in the last few weeks. When ingesting ALA or Whey protein, which are both supposed to be precursors to anatural body glutathione production, reaction is much stronger and worsens ES symptoms. So I think Marc is not the only one. When I had my chelation treatments 5 years ago I had no idea I was suffering from ES and I was doing it to help my thyroid. Come to think of it I felt pretty good during that time. Might have been the glutathione injected directly.
--- On Tue, 6/30/09, Marc Martin <[hidden email]> wrote: From: Marc Martin <[hidden email]> Subject: RE: [eSens] Re: Sue's history - Intravenous glutathione (and othermethods) To: [hidden email] Received: Tuesday, June 30, 2009, 4:12 PM > Marc's the first person I've heard of who has had a negative reaction > but - we are all different. I suspect that raising my glutathione levels is a good thing, it's just that if it is raised too quickly then I get all sorts of detox reactions. There are many things which can be used to raise glutathione levels besides IVs and nebulizers -- eating avocados, using glutathione creams or patches, taking certain supplements (OSR, ALA, Ambrotose, etc.). About the only thing I don't have to be careful about in that list is eating avocados... :-) Marc [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
Re: Sue's history - Intravenous glutathione (and other methods)
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In reply to this post by Ian Kemp
Thanks for detailed response, Ian. I also have the missing GSTM-1 apparently, this causes increases in ROS and other free radicals causing debilitating symptoms/degenerative illnesses,including MCS for some. To date, I have not be able to find out, if it is possible to alter the missing gene. Several articles discuss raising glutathione is only beneficial when it is raised. I have found nothing which mentions the mechanism by which it works when GSTM-1 is mnissing. Or, if there are alternatives, concerning other antioxidants. Does this mean that we are to take Glutathione for the rest of our lives, and what would be the implications if there is the missing gene? Glutathione is a powerful detoxifier, but, there are others. Some have reacted to Glutathione, as I read on CFS boards and other, in particular, those of us, who have suffered severe Adverse Drug Reaction, meaning here prescribed drugs such as fluoroquinolones antibiotics or other meds. I suppose, it might be wise to perhaps start with a nebulizer or patch, which have been found to raise glutathione. I have been taking ImmunoPro and Vit Bs, C and selenium for a year, and will start this again. It enables the body to manufacture its own glutathione. Marc mentioned some other ways of rasing glutathione which are ineresting.I read somewhere that taking milk thistle and artichokes also help raising glut. The Functional Medical Doctor I see, fromn Belgium, says that it is uselessto try and raise glutathione if the GSTM-1 is missing. I need to read up more on this. Unfortunatly, genomics. epigenetics, molecular medicine aand very much verymuch in its infancy. More input on this discussion would be appreciated, --- In [hidden email], "Ian Kemp" <ianandsue.kemp@...> wrote: > > Hi Kooky, > > Sue's missing gene is GSTM-1, but we didn't know this until a couple of > years after the glutathione IV treatments started - we just found that they > worked! Sue's glutathione showed up low in a test (incidentally this seems > quite a tricky test to interpet, the levels did not look that low compared > with the reference but the doctor felt they were very bad and strongly > recommended glute). She started by taking about one IV glutathione per week, > along with a cocktail of other items including B vitamins and magnesium > sulphate (both her Mg and sulphate were very low). After the initial > improvement she was able to drop to one a month and has sometimes been able > to leave it several months. The relief is not just short-term - she can > feel the difference immediately but it then continues, and if she starts > getting MCS symptoms she knows it's time for a "top-up", after which she can > always feel that she is able to detoxify things better. > > Unfortunately not many doctors or therapists have the facilities for IV > treatment. We go to the Breakspear Hospital (private) in Hemel Hempstead, > so that's 20 miles north of London - not aware of anyone else in the area > that does it. > > An alternative to IV is inhale glutathione using a nebuliser (like for > asthma); Sue is about to try this. Breakspear suggest it as an alternative > and it is also recommended by Dr Martin Pall in his book on "Explaining > Unexplained Illnesses" (very heavy going, but certainly comprehensive and > scientific). He also feels that reduced glutathione taken orally is > ineffective because it gets rapidly destroyed in the gut - although some > therapists suggest that even if only 10% survives long enough, it could > still have a beneficial effect. > > We know quite a lot of patients at Breakspear who have had benefits from > glutathione. Marc's the first person I've heard of who has had a negative > reaction but - we are all different. Just because a treatment works for > most people doesn't mean it fits your particular metabolism. For example, > Sue reacts badly to B12 and folic acid which are normally beneficial for > most people. Also, Breakspear offer a very wide range of treatments and > tests, but these can be very expensive, so watch your budget! > > Ian > > _____ > > From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of > furstc0404 > Sent: 30 June 2009 11:06 > To: [hidden email] > Subject: [eSens] Re: Sue's history > > > > > > > Hi Ian: > > I have the missing genes for glutathione according to the NutriGenomics > testing from Genova. I have been raising glutathione gently and slowly for a > year now, taking ImmunoPro, Vit C + selenium. > > I would like to have the Glut IV. > > But, as you mnetioned it is short lasting. From what I read, the effects > only last 4 hours, then it goes down again. > > How often did she do the IV glut? Did she test her glut level after stopping > Glut IV a few months later? > > Also, how does that work, if I have the missing gene for glutathione? > > Lstly, do you of a good MD in London, UK, who administers Glut IV? > > Many thanks > > Kooky > > --- In eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens%40yahoogroups.com> com, "Ian Kemp" > <ianandsue.kemp@> wrote: > > > > Hi Diane, > > > > Sue's liver itself is OK - it always came out all right on the basic NHS > > (UK) tests which identify serious cell damage due to cirrhosis etc. It is > > just the metabolic chemicals that are missing. So she was able to function > > for 40 years with no sign of the underlying problems, and, thank goodness, > > is also considerably better now that her glutathione and sulphate levels > > have been restored - so any damage caused has (mainly) been reversible. > > > > Ian > > > > _____ > > > > From: eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens%40yahoogroups.com> com > [mailto:eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens%40yahoogroups.com> com] On Behalf > Of Evie > > Sent: 23 June 2009 21:50 > > To: eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens%40yahoogroups.com> com > > Subject: RE: [eSens] Marc's history > > > > > > > > > > > > hi Ian, > > > > interesting that Sue has missing genes for glutathione production. that > > would seriously compromise her ability to detox! good thing she was taking > > glutathione treatments! is her liver irreversibly bad or was she able to > > side step that by the iv glutathione treatments? > > > > they now do routine genetic testing for celiac disease here in the States > if > > you ask for it, but alot of genetic tests are not yet available. for > > instance, i don't think you can yet get a test for tj permability. if you > > could, i wouldn't be in line tho, because i already know i have it (you > > cannot get celiac disease without that gene; which is why family members > who > > share cd genes can have cd or not. ones who have cd also have the tj > > permeability gene.) > > > > thanks for your input, > > diane > > > > --- On Sun, 6/21/09, Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ > > <mailto:ianandsue.kemp%40ukgateway.net> ukgateway.net> wrote: > > > > From: Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ <mailto:ianandsue.kemp%40ukgateway.net> > > ukgateway.net> > > Subject: RE: [eSens] Marc's history > > To: eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens%40yahoogroups.com> com > > Date: Sunday, June 21, 2009, 7:32 PM > > > > Hi Diane, > > > > I'd definitely agree with you on the genetic component. Especially as we > > have now been able to get some further genetic tests done which show that > > Sue is missing a couple of key genes, including the one which controls the > > usual main pathway for glutathione production. That certainly fits withus > > having had to give Sue heavy IV doses of glutathione for the last 4 years, > > which has been a key factor in her improvement, but they wear off and need > > to be repeated. > > > > The snag is that these genetic tests are still pretty new, rare and > > expensive. In an ideal world, this new science of "pharmacogenetics" would > > be applied to test people before they were given long-term medication such > > as antidepressants, to see whether they were capable of metabolising them. > > But I think the medical profession in general (and the governments that > > might pay for the tests) are a long way from accepting that yet. There are > > a few cases of it being used (funnily enough, I saw a Readers Digest > article > > on it some time back), but usually only after someone has shown a bad > > unexpeted side effect and they are trying to find out why. > > > > Ian > > > > _____ > > > > From: eSens@yahoogroups. com [mailto:eSens@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of > > Evie > > Sent: 21 June 2009 17:47 > > To: eSens@yahoogroups. com > > Subject: RE: [eSens] Marc's history > > > > hi Ian, > > > > you wrote: "The big question for me is why people > > like you and Sue get ES, and I don't (nor lots of other people), despite > > sitting in front of a computer screen all day for 20+ years and never > taking > > supplements. " > > > > it seems there has to be a genetic component going on, don't you think? > > this is why i have thought tight junction permeability and ion channel > > dysfunction might be involved. about 25% of the population have the gene > > for this, which roughly corresponds with the number of people with ems, > mcs, > > celiac disease,autism, cfs, and fms combined--and all of these disorders > > share commonalities. and, also, some of us start out with one of these and > > end up with all of them (except autism which is age specific). but evenif > > tj/channel permeability turns out to not be involved, it is hard for meto > > believe there is not still some genetic difference. > > > > my 2 cents, > > d > > > > --- On Sat, 6/20/09, Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ > > <mailto:ianandsue. kemp%40ukgateway .net> ukgateway.net> wrote: > > > > From: Ian Kemp <ianandsue.kemp@ <mailto:ianandsue. kemp%40ukgateway .net> > > ukgateway.net> > > Subject: RE: [eSens] Marc's history > > To: eSens@yahoogroups. <mailto:eSens% 40yahoogroups. com> com > > Date: Saturday, June 20, 2009, 11:08 PM > > > > Thanks Marc ... yes, it all figures. The big question for me is why people > > like you and Sue get ES, and I don't (nor lots of other people), despite > > sitting in front of a computer screen all day for 20+ years and never > taking > > supplements. It seems to be a combination of several causes that gives too > > much "total load" on the body. I'd suggest that the prolonged antibiotic > > treatment would have been a huge factor; can't remember whether you've > ever > > had a leaky gut test? Significant that your ES began soon after that.... > > > > Yes, lots of people seem to have had success with ALA for treating manyof > > the chronic diseases like MCS and ES, if the root cause for them was > > something other than heavy metals. > > > > Ian > > > > _____ > > > > From: eSens@yahoogroups. com [mailto:eSens@ yahoogroups. com] On BehalfOf > > Marc > > Martin > > Sent: 20 June 2009 21:56 > > To: eSens@yahoogroups. com > > Subject: RE: [eSens] Marc's history > > > > > I guess a big question is why you might have become ES in the first > > > place. As you know, I believe there is a root cause to all cases, and > > > it seems to be either (1) an underlying illness particularly in the > > > immune system, or (2) prolonged high exposure to EMF's > > > > Well, I've had pollen/dust/ cat allergies since I was a kid, I've had > > a computer related job (as in sitting all day in front of a computer) > > since the mid 1980's, I've had a mouthful of mercury amalgam fillings for > > many years (with no particular precautions during most of their > > removals), and then in the late 1990's I had all sorts of vaccines for > > overseas travel followed by many bouts of viral infections which the > > doctors repeatedly tried to treat with months and months of antibiotics. > > So pick your poison... :-) > > > > > All the very best with further treatment. I'm sure you'll be careful > > > with the alpha lipoic acid > > > > Oh yes, I've been reading some of the discussions on the "adult-metal- > > chelation", where ALA and DMSA seem to be the preferred metal chelators. > > They are extremely cautious there about dosage and timing of doses. And > > I do know of someone who used to be on this group who reportedly cured > > his ES mostly using ALA. > > > > I personally think my problem is mostly metals, given that I can > > hardly stand to take anything that mobilizes/chelates metals. > > > > Marc > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > |
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