New T.V. Please Help!

On July 26, svetaswan <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Do many of the experts even know everything about exactly how these devices work?  

Not sure... perhaps this is related, but I own a media player -- made by Popcorn Hour,
and wanted to upgrade to the newer model.  However, the newer model was intolerable,
while the older model was perfectly fine.  When I was comparing the specs to see
what might be different, I did notice that the newer model had some energy efficiency
rating that the older one didn't have.

Marc

Maybe you could try using a radio with headphones on and just pretend like you're listening to something whilst shopping.  Put your keys or something in one hand and use the hand with the radio to come close to the displays.  You could bring a ruler or tape measure and use that as an 'excuse' to get right close to the thing (ie measure the dimensions like you need to fit it into a certain sized space!  You could try being very ostentacious about it and writing down 'data' in a notebook about each model, taking down each brand and model #.  That should dispell any shoplifting type suspicions.  You might even try pretending that someone is giving you purchasing advice over the speaker and have fun boggling anyone who might be looking on! 

'Paradoxical intention' is something you might be interested in trying vis a vis social anxiety.  I've been there many times--especially anticipatory type anxiety as well as feeling like others are critically evaluating me / my behaviour...etc.  As an example, one might 'try' to get very embarassed to the point of bolting for refuge, if you get me.  This can often have the opposite effect.  I think it was Viktor Frankl who came up with this idea.

 

  ~=~
  Hud
_________________________________________________________
nam tua res agitur, paries cum proximus ardet
You too are in danger when your neighbor's house is on fire (Horace)




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The problem with anumber of TV's is the what I call *dirty air*.

I have measured a number of TV's, and found that this is caused by the use of what the Germans call *Vorschaltgeraete*. These are electronic parts.
The types of TV's are faster changed, than I can measure.
In a type number, just one letter changed from an H into a V, can cause a reasoable Tv into a bad one.

Especially TV's with 3D are mostly bad, because they use Wifi for the glasses.

The only way is checking with an AM radio and a headphone.

Greetings,
Charles Claessens
www.milieuziektes.nl
www.milieuziektes.be
www.minderstraling.nl
www.hetbitje.nl
checked by Emsisoft


  ----- Original Message -----
  From: H J R
  To: [hidden email]
  Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2013 1:08 AM
  Subject: Re: Fw: [eSens] New T.V. Please Help!


  IMO, the best way to assess each TV is to use a cheap battery powered AM radio. Place it near the screen and you'll hear a screach. See how far away you have to move it before it stops making detectable noise.




  ~=~
  Hud
  _________________________________________________________
  nam tua res agitur, paries cum proximus ardet
  You too are in danger when your neighbor's house is on fire (Horace)




  >________________________________
  > From: svetaswan <[hidden email]>
  >To: [hidden email]
  >Sent: Friday, July 26, 2013 6:57:29 PM
  >Subject: Re: Fw: [eSens] New T.V. Please Help!
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >or anything fancy to improve your
  >> perception of motion on-screen (some sets rapidly turn
  >> on/off the backlight for this -- you DON'T want that)
  >>
  >> Marc
  >>
  >
  >But I suppose the "trick" is guessing which TVs use this technology - since this seems like something that TV manufacterers don't disclose?
  >
  >Hi Marc, hi all - I'm sorry that I haven't found the time to write in much. Though I haven't been posting, I have consulted eSens when I've wanted to look up information on a specific issue. This group's archives can be a valuable resource.
  >
  >I just happened upon your 2-month-old post because I unfortunately find myself in the market for yet another new bedroom TV. I was looking to see if I can glean any insights or tips that may have been recently posted here. A couple of years ago - after a tedious and somewhat prolonged search, I settled on a 26" Samsung LED TV (UN26D4003). Well, a week ago - burglars broke into our house, and this tv was one of the items that was stolen. So in a way, I have to start the process all over again. (Do you think if the thieves had known that I was e.s., they would have empathized and left my property alone? Sure, they would have!)
  >
  >As far as getting exactly what I had before - there are little-to-no options in that regard. These Samsung models have mostly vanished from the market; those that are still around are over $300, and may be sold by vendors that may cause Samsung to disregard my warranty should I develop problems with the tv.
  >
  >But it's both interesting and threatening to see how the mainstream tv market has changed in 2 years. Two years ago, CCFL (fluorescent backlight) LCD TVs were still pretty firmly established as the main type of LCD TVs being sold. Now, it seems that the CCFL LCDs have vanished from showroom floors and they are selling nothing but LED TVs now. I was trying to be optimistic about this change - there are some (non-e.s.-related?) positives about LED TVs - but perhaps circumstances and reading this group may bring me back to a sobering reality.
  >
  >For some odd reason, several manufacterers have mostly moved away from 26" TVs, too. I found the 26" to be a good size for my bedroom - 22" TVs just seem too small to focus on from the opposite side of the room. Now, there seem to be more 24" TVs than 26" TVs - I may go with that size. It seems that the market is pushing the consumer who used to have 26" TVs to go larger, though. Exactly what an e.s.'er needs.
  >
  >There was one 26" TV available that I thought would work - a LG (26LN4500). But - now that I've bought it, I've found it to be considerably worse than I perceived it to be in the store. I will probably return it. Maybe a cheaper, lower-caliber t.v. might work better - such as an Insignia. There is a 26" Samsung LED TV (2013 model?) that I can buy directly from the Samsung website - but I'm afraid that this particular TV will be much like the nasty LG. The 2011 Samsung that I found relatively tolerable may have been somewhat of an anomaly.
  >
  >While in the store, I noticed that the LG had the more vivid colors and greater picture-quality than many of the other sets - perhaps whatever makes this set have such a quality picture also generates more radiation, I'm not sure.
  >
  >~Svetaswan
  >
  >
  >
  >------------------------------------
  >
  >Yahoo! Groups Links
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >

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  ------------------------------------

  Yahoo! Groups Links




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--- In [hidden email], Marc Martin <marc@...> wrote:

Wow, you're intrepid!  I'm afraid that I don't have the "casual cool" to pull that off.  These days, I'm far too uptight in public.  

Twenty or so years ago, I might have felt free to do this.  But these days, the atmosphere in stores seems to be less conducive to lingering and browsing.  Employees are ever vigilant for possible shoplifters or robbers - and they can have a way of making you feel as though you're under suspicion.  I have little-to-no tolerance for being treated like that.  

Well - the other day, I located online a used Samsung just like the one I had.  If it is still available, I think I'm going to just go ahead and buy that.  My dad has lost patience with me - he doesn't want me using his credit card to buy and return things a bunch of times.  So I basically have one more chance to get it right - there is no more room for error.

(Full disclosure:  I'm on Social Security Disabiliy {SSI} and am financially dependent on my parents to a large degree.  Two or three years ago, I had much more money in my account - left over from my disability lumpsum backpayment - to do pretty much as I wished.  These days, my money reaches much less far. I'm having to depend on my parents to replace my electronics.)

~Svetaswan

--- In [hidden email], Marc Martin <marc@...> wrote:

Also - many showrooms fail to include remote controls - so customers can't easily experiment with the settings.  Accessing the menu using the buttons provided on the TV is tedious and difficult.  I used to try to bother - but this time, I didn't bother much with trying to control the menu this way.

Best Buy had no remote controls with their displayed sets.  H.H. Gregg had a few, but not every TV was equipped with one.  The only store, IIRC - that I found did a good job with providing remote controls with their showcased TVs was one particular Sears in my area - but this was a few years ago.  

~Svetaswan

On July 27, svetaswan <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Also - many showrooms fail to include remote controls

In my area, we have a few "higher end" video and audio stores
(e.g., Magnolia Hi-Fi and Video, Definitive Audio, Video Only),
where you can sometimes find that they stock fewer sets
(and further spaced apart), the overall EMF environment is
not as bad, and they are happy if you spend hours looking
over their stuff.

Probably a better environment to shop in than a Best Buy
or Frys, etc.

Marc

--- In [hidden email], H J R <hudjr@...> wrote:

Thanks again for the advice.  As far as using headphones....I don't think I would be comfortable with that.  Man, it's pathetic how self-conscious I've become (this may be partly "my fault" - but a large part of the blame for this lies with the negative changes in store enviornments that have taken place over the years).  I just think that I would be looked upon (even) more unfavorably if I had headphones on - especially since I'm not in my teens and twenties anymore.

As for your other suggestions - actually, I've done those things in the past. :)  Well actually, I still take a small notebook and jot down the model number of the TV (and perhaps other basic info), as well as my overall impressions/observations.  I did this just days ago.  Two or three years ago, I even carried a tape measure with me, and sometimes used it. (This may actually be unnecessary - if you get the model number, you can usually come home and look up that info online.)  Back then, I also had my radio. :)  I was a spectacle - or at least I perceived myself to be.  

Unfortunately - my frequent use of a notebook and pen often didn't stop employees from apparently perceiving me as suspicious.  In fact, I had one of my very worst experiences while doing this.  They sicked all of the dogs on me, so to speak.  An employee may have simply been "getting revenge" on me because I didn't answer his "greeting" in a friendly manner.  Perhaps I didn't come across as pleasant - but I wasn't trying to be rude for rude's sake....it was a defensive response, a defense-mechanism.  I was just fed up with constantly feeling like a target of employees' "loss prevention" efforts.  I had had plenty of previous experiences with that store chain in which I received disingenuous "customer service" that was quite excessive and carried definite insulting undertones.  I felt picked on.   I could tell that they were not being friendly because of genuine motives - far too often, they only give you attention to make you feel "watched" so that you will be less likely to steal. (For the record, I have absolutely no history of shoplifting and would never try to steal anything.)  

Your idea about dealing with social anxiety is quite interesting.  Unfortunately, I don't feel that my mind is that pliable - especially at this point.  I may be past the point of no-return.  I think there are strong biological components that are working against me.  For one thing - just as mercury-intoxication ("amalgam illness") is suspected as a contributing cause of electrosensitivity, it is also implicated in various mental disorders (such as social anxiety/withdrawal).  I wish I had the money to get my amalgam dental fillings out - not saying that it would make much of a difference in my problems, but at least it might prevent further deterioration.  


~Svetaswan

--- In [hidden email], Marc Martin <marc@...> wrote:
How disheartening to have a "trusted" brand betray you like that!  

Yeah - this is exactly why I'm leery about buying the most recent model of the 26" Samsung LED TV.  Obviously, just because one particular model of a brand is/was tolerable - doesn't mean that all of their models will be tolerable.  Actually, the 2010 26" Samsung LED TV seemed to generate a lot of sharp radio buzz, so I stayed away from it.  Then, several months later when the 2011 smaller Samsung LED TVs came out - I happened to find that those models produced little radio interference, and were tolerable.  Now that it's 2013 - I fear that Samsung has reverted back to producing a "noisy", less-tolerable product.

Though I perhaps would like to verify this hunch, I cannot afford to guess wrong anymore (see my other post).

And I did notice that several of the current Samsungs, as well as current versions of other products, have higher Energy ratings than their older counterparts.  What are they up to now?  "Energy Star 6.0"?  Something like that.  I knew that this could be a bad sign.

~Svetaswan

--- In [hidden email], "charles" <charles@...> wrote:
Thanks for the information.  "Dirty Air" - yes, that's definitely what it feels like!  It's ridiculous how I can feel the "noxious energy" of a relatively-small TV set from the other side of a room - some 8 or 9 feet away.  Surely - the actual electromagnetic field of the TV isn't that large?  

Even crazier - my attempt to use an older-generation (2nd generation?) iPod to listen to some desired radio content as I'm winding down to go to sleep was a failure.  It's crazy how this tiny device affected me from some 10 feet away.  I attempted to "dock" it and move it to another side of the room - and the noxious energy it emitted still affected me!  How?  Why?  That was quite a disappointment - as I was looking forward to downloading Jim Rome shows on it, and compiling cool playlists.

"Dirty air", indeed.

I also remember keeping my mom's smartphone turned on during one occassion - and feeling a "relief", a "lightening" of the air - when I turned it off.  This relief was felt from 10 feet away - in a compartively-large room that gets good air circulation.  


~Svetaswan

I know this is not a social anxiety forum but reading your response I just have to tell you.  I am 30 years old and have had serious social anxiety my whole life.  It got really bad throughout my 20a.  I spent 3 years barely leaving my house and not feeling like I could go out without feeling paranoid and watched, and never feeling safe in social situations.  I went to an intensive outpatient program that changed
My life basically through exposure to the social situation of the program in a safe, empathetic environment.  At 30 years old I thought my mind might be lacking in plasticity to change but I did change.  You can change too.  I really believe anyone can.  It's not some hokey bs it's just that this is the only life we have and I hate the idea of someone believing their situation is hopeless when it's just not true.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 27, 2013, at 1:27 PM, "svetaswan" <[hidden email]> wrote:


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On July 27, Kate Jones <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Sent from my iPhone

Different topic, but what kind of iPhone do you have, Kate?  Is it tolerable?
Do you have to do anything special to make it more tolerable?

Marc

iPhones are the worst propagators! They have a disclaimer to never touch it. 

Go to Settings; click on “General;” click on “About;” click on “Legal;” then click on “RF.” 


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On July 27, Al Harding <[hidden email]> wrote:
> iPhones are the worst propagators! They have a disclaimer to never touch it. 
> Go to Settings; click on “General;” click on “About;” click on “Legal;” then click on “RF.” 

Yes, historically I have also found iPhones to be the most intolerable of all cellphones,
which is why I'm curious about someone being able to stand one enough to post here.  :-)

Although admittedly, on my recent business trip (now back!), I never noticed any
problem from my co-workers iPhone 5, which surprised me, because during the
last business trip it was definitely causing me problems... (I have a couple different
theories about why this may be, but I'm afraid they will just remain theories until
I've gone on more business trips)

Marc

--- In [hidden email], Kate Jones <mr.manatee@...> wrote:
>
> I know this is not a social anxiety forum but reading your response I just have to tell you.  I am 30 years old and have had serious social anxiety my whole life.  It got really bad throughout my 20a.  I spent 3 years barely leaving my house and not feeling like I could go out without feeling paranoid and watched, and never feeling safe in social situations.  I went to an intensive outpatient program that changed
> My life basically through exposure to the social situation of the program in a safe, empathetic environment.  At 30 years old I thought my mind might be lacking in plasticity to change but I did change.  You can change too.  I really believe anyone can.  It's not some hokey bs it's just that this is the only life we have and I hate the idea of someone believing their situation is hopeless when it's just not true.
>
> Sent from my iPhone


I'm happy for you that you were able to get better.  Stories like yours provide some overall hope.

I guess my fatalistic view isn't exactly the most pleasant thing to witness.  I don't mean to discourage or offend anyone - these are just my own beliefs/experiences that aren't necessarily relevant to anyone else.  I realize that "negative thinking" is definitely an obstacle to my getting better.  But I also believe that at this point in my life - there are other things that are strongly working against me.  There are factors in my life that are greatly complicating the issue.

The ages of 11 through 19 were theoretically a better time in my life to intensively work on my social anxiety.  But when you're young, it can be nearly impossible to "presevere" through the hard work it takes to overcome setbacks and "rewire" your brain (it's hard enough when you're an adult!).  And when you're a teenager - your peers aren't exactly the most patient and understanding people on earth.  I had a few unfortunate experiences in my later teenage years that greatly reinforced my social anxiety.  

There is more that I can say, but I'll stop here.  Thank you for sharing your experience - it's always good when people show that it's possible to change after a certain age. :)

~Svetaswan

--- In [hidden email], Al Harding <iprovedit@...> wrote:
>
> iPhones are the worst propagators! They have a disclaimer to never touch it. 
>
> Go to Settings; click on “General;” click on “About;” click on “Legal;” then click on “RF.” 
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

If Apple warns you against touching one - how do they expect a person to use one?  Don't you have to touch an iPhone to use it? :)  

Or maybe I'm not understanding your post correctly?

~Svetaswan

--- In [hidden email], Marc Martin <marc@...> wrote:

This is my impression as well - that iPhones are the worst, or nearly the worst. (I've never owned a smartphone - my impression is based on limited exposures.)  Several of the Androids are the lesser of the evils, as far as I'm concerned.  When faced with a choice between an iPhone or a Samsung (Galaxy) - I would easily go with the Samsung.  Not only is the radiation better, but I find the Samsung screens easier to look at - with their softer, warmer colors (there may be other things about the screen technology that make Samsungs easier on the eyes).  

The Samsungs also seem to have more adjustability options - you can turn things down (or off) to make them a little more tolerable.

That's not to knock Kate's or anyone's choice to go with an iPhone - we all are different in our sensitivities.  I, too am amazed that she can put up with one long enough to type that message!

All of that said - I still am not sure that even Samsungs are tolerable enough for me to regularly use.  Playing around with my brother's Samsung Galaxy S II (Epic 4G) was not really an encouraging experience at all.  

~Svetaswan

I have an old 20 inch SONY CRT TV. I notice that even when turned off there is a buzzing sound coming from the back of the TV. I wonder if LCD's do the same thing?
Steve

On July 27, torch369 <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I have an old 20 inch SONY CRT TV. I notice that even when turned
> off there is a buzzing sound coming from the back of the TV. I wonder
> if LCD's do the same thing?

Might be an issue with your particular set.  Also, LCD is an entirely
different technology, so I'd be surprised if this problem carried over.

Marc

The disclaimer says to keep it 10mm away from the body. I think touching it would be defined as not keeping it 10mm away from the body....I didn't make up the rules.


------------------------------
On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 4:39 PM PDT svetaswan wrote:

--- In [hidden email], Marc Martin <marc@...> wrote:

Well, I took your hint and took another look at the specifications of different LED TVs - paying closer attention to words like "Clear Motion Rate", "Wide Color Enhancer Plus", and "Triple XD Engine". (Before, when I would look at the Product Manuals, I was paying closer attention to whether or not I could adjust the menu controls to get a warm color temperture and minimize the "blue" colors - and whether or not I could turn off things like Dynamic Contrast and sound enhancers/boosters.)  On paper, you would think that there wouldn't be much (if any) difference between the 26" Samsung I owned, and the more current model.  They both have a "Clear Motion Rate" of 60, and both have "Wide Color Enhancer Plus".  I didn't see anything else in the specs that would suggest that the current model would be more powerful or emf-unfriendly than the 2011 Samsung.  The only things that stood out were:

Speaker Type:  the 2011 Samsung has "Downfiring", while the current model has "Downfiring + Full Range".  

For some reason, the current model is 2 inches thicker than the 2011 model.  Is it simply to accomodate the additional speakers?

Still - the reality may be different than what the similar specs suggest.  There may be something that the manufactuers are not disclosing that make the current model electromagnetically different than the 2011 model.  Or can the specs be completely trusted?  

I couldn't compare the "typical" power-consumption of both Samsungs, since the power consumption of the 2011 model wasn't disclosed.  The typical power consumption of the current model is 23 W.  

~Svetaswan