Leaky gut and celiac disease
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Ligure,
You say you have tested negative for celiac disease but was it a specific test for that? Feedback from this group seems to suggest that the majority have some sort of immune system problem, which very often seems to be linked to leaky gut. There is a general test for leaky gut (also known as intestinal permeability) involving testing the absorption/permeation of a solution of microparticles of various sizes which you drink. From our experience we would say that anyone suffering chronic fatigue, ME, MCS or ES symptoms would be well advised to do this test - we wish we had done it a lot earlier than we did. Sue tested positive for leaky gut but negative for the more specific celiac disease. Ian -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Ligure Sent: 13 May 2006 06:39 To: [hidden email] Subject: RE: [eSens] Re: Is ES an allergy? (Explanation part 2) Diane, I was trying to say the same thing you described here. Perhaps I came off the wrong way. So I think we are in alignment on the celiac way of acquiring an allergy. Basically the digestive system allows things (proteins) to pass through the walls that it should have broken down further (i.e. to amino acids). Celiac disease is one form of this problem. Generically this is called "leaky gut" syndrome. Not to be confused with Montezuma's revenge. ;-) It is leaky in that the unbroken down substance leaks from the GI tract to the bloodstream and thus is engaged by the immune system. I had been tested for celiac (as I recall) and did not have the problem. I suspected a calcium allergy and B12 allergy due to research and it was confirmed through a NAET practitioner. They also cleared it up. However they only cleared those up and not what I am leading to which is a possible allergy to EMF or as I have found on this group electrosmog (sp?). I like that term. Ligure _____ From: Evie [mailto:[hidden email]] Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 8:47 PM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Is ES an allergy? (Explanation part 2) Hi, Ligure, My understanding of allergies is much different than yours. It was explained to me that we aquire allergies when our bodies cannot break down the components of a particular food or chemical, etc, into a usable unit. Anything that is not usable AND gets into the blood stream is considered by the body to be an antigen. Our immune systems are encoded to attack antigens. Foreign substances get into our blood streams via tight junctions (like bricks in a wall, which form the wall of the gut, for instance) which are usually closed and are supposed to be closed, but react to glutens and a few other things by opening. (I have read that EMFs cause tight junctions to open.) As a celiac I am aware of this because celiacs have tight junctions which stay open not only in the small intestine, but in the blood brain barrier and lungs. (Some say also the heart.) This is why celiacs have such a high incidence of auto-immune disease--the immune system is always attacking something or other, usually undigested food particles. Our bodies cannot use many nutrients without "carriers" which escort each assigned nutrient across the intestinal wall at particular sites. B12, for instance, which you mention having problems with, is assigned a particular site where it crosses and this is also one of the first sites to be damaged in celiac disease or from gluten intolerance. The site for calcium is also one of the first to be damaged by gluten intolerance and cd. It sounds to me like you do not have an allergy to either of these, but instead have gluten intolerance or celiac disease. In celiac disease, you must not eat any glutens which are contained in wheat, rye, barley, and oats (by contamination). Nor can you eat any derivitives of these. In 6 months or so of avoidance, your small intestine will begin to heal and this will cure you of your "allergy" to B12 and calcium. I had problems with these nutrients as well. When I was finally dxed with cd, I had osteoporosis from calcium deficiency and a dexa scan of -3.50. Two years after going glutenfree, my dexa score had improved to +1.75. I am not saying that NAET or Bioset cannot work (I know nothing of either, btw). But if they work they do it on a different principal than simply "retraining". What exactly is NAET and Bioset? Have these worked, for instance, for your allergies to B12 and calcium? Diane Ligure <[hidden email]> wrote: And now the different level. Given that the body has a means of taking care of its allergen/toxic load (part 1), why did it accumulate the load in the first place? Or more to the point why do some folks have an allergy to some substance while others do not? These questions have plagued me. So, the body responds to an allergen because it was trained to do so. This may seem strange (at least it did to me) considering that there are many people's bodies which do not adversely respond to a given allergen (i.e. wheat) while others have a problem with it. How did the body acquire such an adverse response? Some might say genetics. I am going to lay that one aside just because that is the typical catchall when the "expoerts" don't know the answer. It may be the "answer" in some cases, but there or other answers that can be found before we throw in the genetic towel. How else was the body trained? Simple explanations are in order. Prolonged exposure, over exposure, or exposure at the wrong place It often happens that where at one time one has no allergic response to something to discover one day that they can no longer tolerate it. This occurs because the immune system got engaged at a deeper level than it once needed to or "decided" to engage the substance in an adversarial fashion. One example of this is the "leaky gut" syndrome. If the digestive system does not metabolize the bread and break its proteins down into amino acids, the immune system will engage the proteins as if they were foreign substances and develop an allergy. I because allergic to calcium and B12 in this way. And both of these are needed by the body. Immune system is weak during exposure This can happen by weakened associaiton. For instance if you are weakened by exposure to some chemical and you are eating bread during that exposure, your immune system may mistakenly react to the bread. The weakness may not be physical even. It could be emotional, I am sure there are other ways of training, but they are similar. Now the question is how to "untrain" the response. This is where the next level begins. Through energetic-type of medicine like NAET and Bioset the body's immune system is retaught to no longer consider a substance as an allergen. It sort of makes peace with the allergen and turns it into a peacable neighbor. So instead of having an attacking type of response which leads to histamine reactions and thus cascade into an allergic response it allow the substance to coexist and even just pass on through the body if the substance is of no use. Now this energetic medicine goes to the level that your body's "field" can tell when it comes in proximity to a substances "field" what that substance it. If your body does not want that substance (i.e. allergic response), it will begin to respond accordingly. --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ YAHOO! 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You know, upon further reflection, it was two of my children that we
specifically tested for celiac disease. Neither had it. I think I will have to look into that for myself. What is the name of the test so that I can order it? Thanks, Ligure _____ From: Ian Kemp [mailto:[hidden email]] Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2006 1:55 PM To: [hidden email] Subject: [eSens] Leaky gut and celiac disease Ligure, You say you have tested negative for celiac disease but was it a specific test for that? Feedback from this group seems to suggest that the majority have some sort of immune system problem, which very often seems to be linked to leaky gut. There is a general test for leaky gut (also known as intestinal permeability) involving testing the absorption/permeation of a solution of microparticles of various sizes which you drink. From our experience we would say that anyone suffering chronic fatigue, ME, MCS or ES symptoms would be well advised to do this test - we wish we had done it a lot earlier than we did. Sue tested positive for leaky gut but negative for the more specific celiac disease. Ian -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Ligure Sent: 13 May 2006 06:39 To: [hidden email] Subject: RE: [eSens] Re: Is ES an allergy? (Explanation part 2) Diane, I was trying to say the same thing you described here. Perhaps I came off the wrong way. So I think we are in alignment on the celiac way of acquiring an allergy. Basically the digestive system allows things (proteins) to pass through the walls that it should have broken down further (i.e. to amino acids). Celiac disease is one form of this problem. Generically this is called "leaky gut" syndrome. Not to be confused with Montezuma's revenge. ;-) It is leaky in that the unbroken down substance leaks from the GI tract to the bloodstream and thus is engaged by the immune system. I had been tested for celiac (as I recall) and did not have the problem. I suspected a calcium allergy and B12 allergy due to research and it was confirmed through a NAET practitioner. They also cleared it up. However they only cleared those up and not what I am leading to which is a possible allergy to EMF or as I have found on this group electrosmog (sp?). I like that term. Ligure _____ From: Evie [mailto:[hidden email]] Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 8:47 PM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Is ES an allergy? (Explanation part 2) Hi, Ligure, My understanding of allergies is much different than yours. It was explained to me that we aquire allergies when our bodies cannot break down the components of a particular food or chemical, etc, into a usable unit. Anything that is not usable AND gets into the blood stream is considered by the body to be an antigen. Our immune systems are encoded to attack antigens. Foreign substances get into our blood streams via tight junctions (like bricks in a wall, which form the wall of the gut, for instance) which are usually closed and are supposed to be closed, but react to glutens and a few other things by opening. (I have read that EMFs cause tight junctions to open.) As a celiac I am aware of this because celiacs have tight junctions which stay open not only in the small intestine, but in the blood brain barrier and lungs. (Some say also the heart.) This is why celiacs have such a high incidence of auto-immune disease--the immune system is always attacking something or other, usually undigested food particles. Our bodies cannot use many nutrients without "carriers" which escort each assigned nutrient across the intestinal wall at particular sites. B12, for instance, which you mention having problems with, is assigned a particular site where it crosses and this is also one of the first sites to be damaged in celiac disease or from gluten intolerance. The site for calcium is also one of the first to be damaged by gluten intolerance and cd. It sounds to me like you do not have an allergy to either of these, but instead have gluten intolerance or celiac disease. In celiac disease, you must not eat any glutens which are contained in wheat, rye, barley, and oats (by contamination). Nor can you eat any derivitives of these. In 6 months or so of avoidance, your small intestine will begin to heal and this will cure you of your "allergy" to B12 and calcium. I had problems with these nutrients as well. When I was finally dxed with cd, I had osteoporosis from calcium deficiency and a dexa scan of -3.50. Two years after going glutenfree, my dexa score had improved to +1.75. I am not saying that NAET or Bioset cannot work (I know nothing of either, btw). But if they work they do it on a different principal than simply "retraining". What exactly is NAET and Bioset? Have these worked, for instance, for your allergies to B12 and calcium? Diane Ligure <[hidden email]> wrote: And now the different level. Given that the body has a means of taking care of its allergen/toxic load (part 1), why did it accumulate the load in the first place? Or more to the point why do some folks have an allergy to some substance while others do not? These questions have plagued me. So, the body responds to an allergen because it was trained to do so. This may seem strange (at least it did to me) considering that there are many people's bodies which do not adversely respond to a given allergen (i.e. wheat) while others have a problem with it. How did the body acquire such an adverse response? Some might say genetics. I am going to lay that one aside just because that is the typical catchall when the "expoerts" don't know the answer. It may be the "answer" in some cases, but there or other answers that can be found before we throw in the genetic towel. How else was the body trained? Simple explanations are in order. Prolonged exposure, over exposure, or exposure at the wrong place It often happens that where at one time one has no allergic response to something to discover one day that they can no longer tolerate it. This occurs because the immune system got engaged at a deeper level than it once needed to or "decided" to engage the substance in an adversarial fashion. One example of this is the "leaky gut" syndrome. If the digestive system does not metabolize the bread and break its proteins down into amino acids, the immune system will engage the proteins as if they were foreign substances and develop an allergy. I because allergic to calcium and B12 in this way. And both of these are needed by the body. Immune system is weak during exposure This can happen by weakened associaiton. For instance if you are weakened by exposure to some chemical and you are eating bread during that exposure, your immune system may mistakenly react to the bread. The weakness may not be physical even. It could be emotional, I am sure there are other ways of training, but they are similar. Now the question is how to "untrain" the response. This is where the next level begins. Through energetic-type of medicine like NAET and Bioset the body's immune system is retaught to no longer consider a substance as an allergen. It sort of makes peace with the allergen and turns it into a peacable neighbor. So instead of having an attacking type of response which leads to histamine reactions and thus cascade into an allergic response it allow the substance to coexist and even just pass on through the body if the substance is of no use. Now this energetic medicine goes to the level that your body's "field" can tell when it comes in proximity to a substances "field" what that substance it. If your body does not want that substance (i.e. allergic response), it will begin to respond accordingly. --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS * Visit your group "HYPERLINK "HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eSens"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eSens"eSe ns" on the web. * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HYPERLINK "mailto:[hidden email]?subject=Unsubscribe"eSens-unsubscr [hidden email] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the HYPERLINK "HYPERLINK "http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/"http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/"Yahoo! Terms of Service. _____ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.6/338 - Release Date: 5/12/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.6/338 - Release Date: 5/12/2006 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! 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In reply to this post by Ian Kemp
Hi, Ligure,
Where are you located? Doctors do different tests in different areas/countries. Here in the US, you can get a battery of blood tests +/or a genetic test. None are 100% conclusive, tho the genetic test can at least tell you if you have the known genes. (They do suspect, tho, that they have not yet mapped all the genes which produce celiac/gluten intolerance.) There is also a doc who is highly regarded in the celiac community (but whose workis considered suspect by many in the medical community) who dxes celiac disease by a stool test by mail. In the end, the gold standard for celiac disease is still by endoscopic biopsy. Even this is often false negative, especially if the person abstains from glutens prior to the biopsy, or insufficient samples are taken, or the doctor is not familiar with what to look for, or.... You get the picture. If you have been able to cure your "allergy" to calcium and B12, it is likely you have done something which has resulted in curing leaky gut. Celiac disease can go into remission, tho this is not the norm. It is not as likely that you have celiac disease if your B12 and calcium are now well tolerated. However, if you are still experiencing signs of leaky gut, a celiactest would be very good for you to still have. If you are here in the States, I can send you more info. Enterolabs is the name of the lab with the doc(Dr Fine) who does stool samples. He also does genetic tests. You can research that online. I can get you the site if you are not familiar with search engines. I don't know how this works inBritain or other countries, but here in the US celiac disease is still a hard disease for many to get dxed. There are many on my celiac forum who gave up trying to get a formal dx and simply went totally gluten-free on their own. My best to you and your children, Diane Ligure <[hidden email]> wrote: You know, upon further reflection, it was two of my children that we specifically tested for celiac disease. Neither had it. I think I will have to look into that for myself. What is the name of the test so that I can order it? Thanks, Ligure _____ From: Ian Kemp [mailto:[hidden email]] Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2006 1:55 PM To: [hidden email] Subject: [eSens] Leaky gut and celiac disease Ligure, You say you have tested negative for celiac disease but was it a specific test for that? Feedback from this group seems to suggest that the majority have some sort of immune system problem, which very often seems to be linked to leaky gut. There is a general test for leaky gut (also known as intestinal permeability) involving testing the absorption/permeation of a solution of microparticles of various sizes which you drink. From our experience we would say that anyone suffering chronic fatigue, ME, MCS or ES symptoms would be well advised to do this test - we wish we had done it a lot earlier than we did. Sue tested positive for leaky gut but negative for the more specific celiac disease. Ian -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Ligure Sent: 13 May 2006 06:39 To: [hidden email] Subject: RE: [eSens] Re: Is ES an allergy? (Explanation part 2) Diane, I was trying to say the same thing you described here. Perhaps I came off the wrong way. So I think we are in alignment on the celiac way of acquiring an allergy. Basically the digestive system allows things (proteins) to pass through the walls that it should have broken down further (i.e. to amino acids). Celiac disease is one form of this problem. Generically this is called "leaky gut" syndrome. Not to be confused with Montezuma's revenge. ;-) It is leaky in that the unbroken down substance leaks from the GI tract to the bloodstream and thus is engaged by the immune system. I had been tested for celiac (as I recall) and did not have the problem. I suspected a calcium allergy and B12 allergy due to research and it was confirmed through a NAET practitioner. They also cleared it up. However they only cleared those up and not what I am leading to which is a possible allergy to EMF or as I have found on this group electrosmog (sp?). I like that term. Ligure _____ From: Evie [mailto:[hidden email]] Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 8:47 PM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Is ES an allergy? (Explanation part 2) Hi, Ligure, My understanding of allergies is much different than yours. It was explained to me that we aquire allergies when our bodies cannot break down the components of a particular food or chemical, etc, into a usable unit. Anything that is not usable AND gets into the blood stream is considered by the body to be an antigen. Our immune systems are encoded to attack antigens. Foreign substances get into our blood streams via tight junctions (like bricks in a wall, which form the wall of the gut, for instance) which are usually closed and are supposed to be closed, but react to glutens and a few other things by opening. (I have read that EMFs cause tight junctions to open.) As a celiac I am aware of this because celiacs have tight junctions which stay open not only in the small intestine, but in the blood brain barrier and lungs. (Some say also the heart.) This is why celiacs have such a high incidence of auto-immune disease--the immune system is always attacking something or other, usually undigested food particles. Our bodies cannot use many nutrients without "carriers" which escort each assigned nutrient across the intestinal wall at particular sites. B12, for instance, which you mention having problems with, is assigned a particular site where it crosses and this is also one of the first sites to be damaged in celiac disease or from gluten intolerance. The site for calcium is also one of the first to be damaged by gluten intolerance and cd. It sounds to me like you do not have an allergy to either of these, but instead have gluten intolerance or celiac disease. In celiac disease, you must not eat any glutens which are contained in wheat, rye, barley, and oats (by contamination). Nor can you eat any derivitives of these. In 6 months or so of avoidance, your small intestine will begin to heal and this will cure you of your "allergy" to B12 and calcium. I had problems with these nutrients as well. When I was finally dxed with cd, I had osteoporosis from calcium deficiency and a dexa scan of -3.50. Two years after going glutenfree, my dexa score had improved to +1.75. I am not saying that NAET or Bioset cannot work (I know nothing of either, btw). But if they work they do it on a different principal than simply "retraining". What exactly is NAET and Bioset? Have these worked, for instance, for your allergies to B12 and calcium? Diane Ligure <[hidden email]> wrote: And now the different level. Given that the body has a means of taking care of its allergen/toxic load (part 1), why did it accumulate the load in the first place? Or more to the point why do some folks have an allergy to some substance while others do not? These questions have plagued me. So, the body responds to an allergen because it was trained to do so. This may seem strange (at least it did to me) considering that there are many people's bodies which do not adversely respond to a given allergen (i.e. wheat) while others have a problem with it. How did the body acquire such an adverse response? Some might say genetics. I am going to lay that one aside just because that is the typical catchall when the "expoerts" don't know the answer. It may be the "answer" in some cases, but there or other answers that can be found before we throw in the genetic towel. How else was the body trained? Simple explanations are in order. Prolonged exposure, over exposure, or exposure at the wrong place It often happens that where at one time one has no allergic response to something to discover one day that they can no longer tolerate it. This occurs because the immune system got engaged at a deeper level than it once needed to or "decided" to engage the substance in an adversarial fashion. One example of this is the "leaky gut" syndrome. If the digestive system does not metabolize the bread and break its proteins down into amino acids, the immune system will engage the proteins as if they were foreign substances and develop an allergy. I because allergic to calcium and B12 in this way. And both of these are needed by the body. Immune system is weak during exposure This can happen by weakened associaiton. For instance if you are weakened by exposure to some chemical and you are eating bread during that exposure, your immune system may mistakenly react to the bread. The weakness may not be physical even. It could be emotional, I am sure there are other ways of training, but they are similar. Now the question is how to "untrain" the response. This is where the next level begins. Through energetic-type of medicine like NAET and Bioset the body's immune system is retaught to no longer consider a substance as an allergen. It sort of makes peace with the allergen and turns it into a peacable neighbor. So instead of having an attacking type of response which leads to histamine reactions and thus cascade into an allergic response it allow the substance to coexist and even just pass on through the body if the substance is of no use. Now this energetic medicine goes to the level that your body's "field" can tell when it comes in proximity to a substances "field" what that substance it. If your body does not want that substance (i.e. allergic response), it will begin to respond accordingly. --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS * Visit your group "HYPERLINK "HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eSens"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eSens"eSe ns" on the web. * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HYPERLINK "mailto:[hidden email]?subject=Unsubscribe"eSens-unsubscr [hidden email] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the HYPERLINK "HYPERLINK "http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/"http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/"Yahoo! Terms of Service. _____ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.6/338 - Release Date: 5/12/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.6/338 - Release Date: 5/12/2006 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! 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In reply to this post by Ian Kemp
The test is the "leaky gut" or "intestinal permeability" test. It's one of
the most common "alternative medicine" tests, and a number of labs do it both in the UK and the USA (and probably elsewhere). They should also provide an interpretation of the results for you. from what I've heard, it's common for people with MCS or other immune system dysfunction to test positive, and this helps to explain why they are not absorbing the nutrients that usually keep the immune system and liver detox functions healthy. The problem then is what to do about it. The msot common hypothesis is that it's caused by a bacterial or yeast problem, and probiotics or an antifungal may help, depending on the person. (And also on the practitioner - there doesn't seem to be a consensus on the best treatment). Ian _____ From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Ligure Sent: 15 May 2006 04:38 To: [hidden email] Subject: RE: [eSens] Leaky gut and celiac disease You know, upon further reflection, it was two of my children that we specifically tested for celiac disease. Neither had it. I think I will have to look into that for myself. What is the name of the test so that I can order it? Thanks, Ligure _____ From: Ian Kemp [mailto:[hidden email]] Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2006 1:55 PM To: [hidden email] Subject: [eSens] Leaky gut and celiac disease Ligure, You say you have tested negative for celiac disease but was it a specific test for that? Feedback from this group seems to suggest that the majority have some sort of immune system problem, which very often seems to be linked to leaky gut. There is a general test for leaky gut (also known as intestinal permeability) involving testing the absorption/permeation of a solution of microparticles of various sizes which you drink. From our experience we would say that anyone suffering chronic fatigue, ME, MCS or ES symptoms would be well advised to do this test - we wish we had done it a lot earlier than we did. Sue tested positive for leaky gut but negative for the more specific celiac disease. Ian -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Ligure Sent: 13 May 2006 06:39 To: [hidden email] Subject: RE: [eSens] Re: Is ES an allergy? (Explanation part 2) Diane, I was trying to say the same thing you described here. Perhaps I came off the wrong way. So I think we are in alignment on the celiac way of acquiring an allergy. Basically the digestive system allows things (proteins) to pass through the walls that it should have broken down further (i.e. to amino acids). Celiac disease is one form of this problem. Generically this is called "leaky gut" syndrome. Not to be confused with Montezuma's revenge. ;-) It is leaky in that the unbroken down substance leaks from the GI tract to the bloodstream and thus is engaged by the immune system. I had been tested for celiac (as I recall) and did not have the problem. I suspected a calcium allergy and B12 allergy due to research and it was confirmed through a NAET practitioner. They also cleared it up. However they only cleared those up and not what I am leading to which is a possible allergy to EMF or as I have found on this group electrosmog (sp?). I like that term. Ligure _____ From: Evie [mailto:[hidden email]] Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 8:47 PM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Is ES an allergy? (Explanation part 2) Hi, Ligure, My understanding of allergies is much different than yours. It was explained to me that we aquire allergies when our bodies cannot break down the components of a particular food or chemical, etc, into a usable unit. Anything that is not usable AND gets into the blood stream is considered by the body to be an antigen. Our immune systems are encoded to attack antigens. Foreign substances get into our blood streams via tight junctions (like bricks in a wall, which form the wall of the gut, for instance) which are usually closed and are supposed to be closed, but react to glutens and a few other things by opening. (I have read that EMFs cause tight junctions to open.) As a celiac I am aware of this because celiacs have tight junctions which stay open not only in the small intestine, but in the blood brain barrier and lungs. (Some say also the heart.) This is why celiacs have such a high incidence of auto-immune disease--the immune system is always attacking something or other, usually undigested food particles. Our bodies cannot use many nutrients without "carriers" which escort each assigned nutrient across the intestinal wall at particular sites. B12, for instance, which you mention having problems with, is assigned a particular site where it crosses and this is also one of the first sites to be damaged in celiac disease or from gluten intolerance. The site for calcium is also one of the first to be damaged by gluten intolerance and cd. It sounds to me like you do not have an allergy to either of these, but instead have gluten intolerance or celiac disease. In celiac disease, you must not eat any glutens which are contained in wheat, rye, barley, and oats (by contamination). Nor can you eat any derivitives of these. In 6 months or so of avoidance, your small intestine will begin to heal and this will cure you of your "allergy" to B12 and calcium. I had problems with these nutrients as well. When I was finally dxed with cd, I had osteoporosis from calcium deficiency and a dexa scan of -3.50. Two years after going glutenfree, my dexa score had improved to +1.75. I am not saying that NAET or Bioset cannot work (I know nothing of either, btw). But if they work they do it on a different principal than simply "retraining". What exactly is NAET and Bioset? Have these worked, for instance, for your allergies to B12 and calcium? Diane Ligure <[hidden email]> wrote: And now the different level. Given that the body has a means of taking care of its allergen/toxic load (part 1), why did it accumulate the load in the first place? Or more to the point why do some folks have an allergy to some substance while others do not? These questions have plagued me. So, the body responds to an allergen because it was trained to do so. This may seem strange (at least it did to me) considering that there are many people's bodies which do not adversely respond to a given allergen (i.e. wheat) while others have a problem with it. How did the body acquire such an adverse response? Some might say genetics. I am going to lay that one aside just because that is the typical catchall when the "expoerts" don't know the answer. It may be the "answer" in some cases, but there or other answers that can be found before we throw in the genetic towel. How else was the body trained? Simple explanations are in order. Prolonged exposure, over exposure, or exposure at the wrong place It often happens that where at one time one has no allergic response to something to discover one day that they can no longer tolerate it. This occurs because the immune system got engaged at a deeper level than it once needed to or "decided" to engage the substance in an adversarial fashion. One example of this is the "leaky gut" syndrome. If the digestive system does not metabolize the bread and break its proteins down into amino acids, the immune system will engage the proteins as if they were foreign substances and develop an allergy. I because allergic to calcium and B12 in this way. And both of these are needed by the body. Immune system is weak during exposure This can happen by weakened associaiton. For instance if you are weakened by exposure to some chemical and you are eating bread during that exposure, your immune system may mistakenly react to the bread. The weakness may not be physical even. It could be emotional, I am sure there are other ways of training, but they are similar. Now the question is how to "untrain" the response. This is where the next level begins. Through energetic-type of medicine like NAET and Bioset the body's immune system is retaught to no longer consider a substance as an allergen. It sort of makes peace with the allergen and turns it into a peacable neighbor. So instead of having an attacking type of response which leads to histamine reactions and thus cascade into an allergic response it allow the substance to coexist and even just pass on through the body if the substance is of no use. Now this energetic medicine goes to the level that your body's "field" can tell when it comes in proximity to a substances "field" what that substance it. If your body does not want that substance (i.e. allergic response), it will begin to respond accordingly. --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ YAHOO! 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In reply to this post by Ian Kemp
Here's some info. I just got. There are tests on the link.
Everyone in America has Gluten Sensitivity until proven otherwise... From Dr. Fine's www.enterolab.com website: > >Note: DQ2 and DQ8 are the main Celiac ("classic intestinal villous atrophy associated with gluten intolerance") genes > >"How common are the gluten sensitivity and celiac genes? >DQ2 is present in 31% of the general American population. DQ8 (without DQ2) is present in another 12%. Thus, the main celiac genes are present in 43% of Americans. Include DQ1 (without DQ2 or DQ8), which is present in another 38%, yields the fact that at least 81% of America is genetically predisposed to gluten sensitivity. (Of those with at least one DQ1 allele, 46% have DQ1,7, 42% have DQ1,1, 11% have DQ1,4, and 1% have DQ1,9.) Of the remaining 19%, most have DQ7,7 (an allele almost identical in structure to DQ2,2, the most celiac-predisposing of genetic combinations) which in our laboratory experience is associated with strikingly high antigliadin antibody titers in many such people. Thus, it is really only those with DQ4,4 that have never been shown to have a genetic predisposition to gluten sensitivity, and this gene combination is very rare in America (but not necessarily as rare in Sub-Saharan Africa or Asia where the majority of the inhabitants are not only racially different from Caucasians, but they rarely eat gluten-containing grains, and hence, gluten-induced disease is rare). Thus, based on these data, almost all Americans, especially those descending from Europe (including Mexico and other Latin states because of the Spanish influence), the Middle East, the Near East (including India), and Russia, are genetically predisposed to gluten sensitivity. (That is why we are here doing what we do!) But be aware that if a person of any race has a gluten sensitive gene, and eats gluten, they can become gluten sensitive." > >This above quotation is from https://www.enterolab.com/StaticPages/Faq_Result_Interpretation.htm |
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In reply to this post by Ian Kemp
Hi Ligure and Ian,
Sorry this info may not translate well. I am copying from a word document and it is not spacing correctly for me. Celiac testing is different than that for leaky gut. Because I belong to a large (3000+ people) celiac forum and another celiac food forum, I am up on all the research, etc, for celiac disease. There is a new home test for celiac disease, however, I regard it too new to be accurate. (I also do not regard Enterolabs tests as completely accurate, tho these can be a way to go if you are looking for gluten intolerance rather than just celiac disease.) Again, I do not know how they do this in Britain, but in the US, these are the tests for celiac disease: As a general note, these lab tests are looking for antibodies to gluten, and therefore, may not be accurate for diagnosis if someone is already maintaining a gluten free diet. It is a battery of tests, including: 1. IgA antigliadin antibodies 2. IgG antigliadin antibodies 3. Anti-endomysial IgA 4. Tissue Transglutaminase IgA 5. Total Serum IgA (note.. many people forget to run this test, so be sure to ask for it. It is important because a significant percentage of people with celiac disease have selective IgA deficiency and don't make enough IgA to make the test valid and might conclude an incorrect diagnosis). The Genetic tests look for DQ2 and DQ8 genes. It is now generally accepted that all new adult celiacs had celiac disease as children and underwent remission. Remission happens most often at the age of 11yo. Prometheus Labs--I have heard more than once that they are the most effective and knowledgeable lab in this country (US) when it comes to blood testing for Celiac testing. They test for the entire celiac panel. I was told that the serology is only $290 and the serology plus genetic test is $730 (This includes the genetic testing). Prometheus will submit to your insurance if you provide them with the information. I was told that you need a doctor's written order to take to a lab. The lab will draw the blood and send it to Prometheus for testing. If your doctor is not familiar with sending testing to them, Prometheus will ship you their specimen transport boxes at no charge. Their website is www.prometheuslabs.com and has some detailed info about the Celiac Disease Serology. Hope this answers your questions about celiac testing. As I wrote in another email, celiac tests are not always conclusive. There is a problem with false negative results more than false positive ones. As a result, some people prefer to go completely gluten-free (the treatment for celiac disease) even without positive test results. In doing so, many find relief of symptoms and then stay gf. Diane Ian Kemp <[hidden email]> wrote: The test is the "leaky gut" or "intestinal permeability" test. It's one of the most common "alternative medicine" tests, and a number of labs do it both in the UK and the USA (and probably elsewhere). They should also provide an interpretation of the results for you. from what I've heard, it's common for people with MCS or other immune system dysfunction to test positive, and this helps to explain why they are not absorbing the nutrients that usually keep the immune system and liver detox functions healthy. The problem then is what to do about it. The msot common hypothesis is that it's caused by a bacterial or yeast problem, and probiotics or an antifungal may help, depending on the person. (And also on the practitioner - there doesn't seem to be a consensus on the best treatment). Ian _____ From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Ligure Sent: 15 May 2006 04:38 To: [hidden email] Subject: RE: [eSens] Leaky gut and celiac disease You know, upon further reflection, it was two of my children that we specifically tested for celiac disease. Neither had it. I think I will have to look into that for myself. What is the name of the test so that I can order it? Thanks, Ligure _____ From: Ian Kemp [mailto:[hidden email]] Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2006 1:55 PM To: [hidden email] Subject: [eSens] Leaky gut and celiac disease Ligure, You say you have tested negative for celiac disease but was it a specific test for that? Feedback from this group seems to suggest that the majority have some sort of immune system problem, which very often seems to be linked to leaky gut. There is a general test for leaky gut (also known as intestinal permeability) involving testing the absorption/permeation of a solution of microparticles of various sizes which you drink. From our experience we would say that anyone suffering chronic fatigue, ME, MCS or ES symptoms would be well advised to do this test - we wish we had done it a lot earlier than we did. Sue tested positive for leaky gut but negative for the more specific celiac disease. Ian -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Ligure Sent: 13 May 2006 06:39 To: [hidden email] Subject: RE: [eSens] Re: Is ES an allergy? (Explanation part 2) Diane, I was trying to say the same thing you described here. Perhaps I came off the wrong way. So I think we are in alignment on the celiac way of acquiring an allergy. Basically the digestive system allows things (proteins) to pass through the walls that it should have broken down further (i.e. to amino acids). Celiac disease is one form of this problem. Generically this is called "leaky gut" syndrome. Not to be confused with Montezuma's revenge. ;-) It is leaky in that the unbroken down substance leaks from the GI tract to the bloodstream and thus is engaged by the immune system. I had been tested for celiac (as I recall) and did not have the problem. I suspected a calcium allergy and B12 allergy due to research and it was confirmed through a NAET practitioner. They also cleared it up. However they only cleared those up and not what I am leading to which is a possible allergy to EMF or as I have found on this group electrosmog (sp?). I like that term. Ligure _____ From: Evie [mailto:[hidden email]] Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 8:47 PM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Is ES an allergy? (Explanation part 2) Hi, Ligure, My understanding of allergies is much different than yours. It was explained to me that we aquire allergies when our bodies cannot break down the components of a particular food or chemical, etc, into a usable unit. Anything that is not usable AND gets into the blood stream is considered by the body to be an antigen. Our immune systems are encoded to attack antigens. Foreign substances get into our blood streams via tight junctions (like bricks in a wall, which form the wall of the gut, for instance) which are usually closed and are supposed to be closed, but react to glutens and a few other things by opening. (I have read that EMFs cause tight junctions to open.) As a celiac I am aware of this because celiacs have tight junctions which stay open not only in the small intestine, but in the blood brain barrier and lungs. (Some say also the heart.) This is why celiacs have such a high incidence of auto-immune disease--the immune system is always attacking something or other, usually undigested food particles. Our bodies cannot use many nutrients without "carriers" which escort each assigned nutrient across the intestinal wall at particular sites. B12, for instance, which you mention having problems with, is assigned a particular site where it crosses and this is also one of the first sites to be damaged in celiac disease or from gluten intolerance. The site for calcium is also one of the first to be damaged by gluten intolerance and cd. It sounds to me like you do not have an allergy to either of these, but instead have gluten intolerance or celiac disease. In celiac disease, you must not eat any glutens which are contained in wheat, rye, barley, and oats (by contamination). Nor can you eat any derivitives of these. In 6 months or so of avoidance, your small intestine will begin to heal and this will cure you of your "allergy" to B12 and calcium. I had problems with these nutrients as well. When I was finally dxed with cd, I had osteoporosis from calcium deficiency and a dexa scan of -3.50. Two years after going glutenfree, my dexa score had improved to +1.75. I am not saying that NAET or Bioset cannot work (I know nothing of either, btw). But if they work they do it on a different principal than simply "retraining". What exactly is NAET and Bioset? Have these worked, for instance, for your allergies to B12 and calcium? Diane Ligure <[hidden email]> wrote: And now the different level. Given that the body has a means of taking care of its allergen/toxic load (part 1), why did it accumulate the load in the first place? Or more to the point why do some folks have an allergy to some substance while others do not? These questions have plagued me. So, the body responds to an allergen because it was trained to do so. This may seem strange (at least it did to me) considering that there are many people's bodies which do not adversely respond to a given allergen (i.e. wheat) while others have a problem with it. How did the body acquire such an adverse response? Some might say genetics. I am going to lay that one aside just because that is the typical catchall when the "expoerts" don't know the answer. It may be the "answer" in some cases, but there or other answers that can be found before we throw in the genetic towel. How else was the body trained? Simple explanations are in order. Prolonged exposure, over exposure, or exposure at the wrong place It often happens that where at one time one has no allergic response to something to discover one day that they can no longer tolerate it. This occurs because the immune system got engaged at a deeper level than it once needed to or "decided" to engage the substance in an adversarial fashion. One example of this is the "leaky gut" syndrome. If the digestive system does not metabolize the bread and break its proteins down into amino acids, the immune system will engage the proteins as if they were foreign substances and develop an allergy. I because allergic to calcium and B12 in this way. And both of these are needed by the body. Immune system is weak during exposure This can happen by weakened associaiton. For instance if you are weakened by exposure to some chemical and you are eating bread during that exposure, your immune system may mistakenly react to the bread. The weakness may not be physical even. It could be emotional, I am sure there are other ways of training, but they are similar. Now the question is how to "untrain" the response. This is where the next level begins. Through energetic-type of medicine like NAET and Bioset the body's immune system is retaught to no longer consider a substance as an allergen. It sort of makes peace with the allergen and turns it into a peacable neighbor. So instead of having an attacking type of response which leads to histamine reactions and thus cascade into an allergic response it allow the substance to coexist and even just pass on through the body if the substance is of no use. 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In reply to this post by snoshoe_2
Hi, Snoshoe,
Celiac disease is very much underdxed in the US, however, celiac d. in the US is not as bad as this article makes it seem. Not everybody who has the genes for celiac disease gets celiac disease. Also, even tho I was the one who posted this site, I did make mention that this doctor's methodology and views are not totally accepted by the medical community. This is because alot of his claims have not been proven by actual research and are just this man's opinions. While I do not totally disagree with most of what he claims, I do think it prudent to consider it all with a jaded eye. I still think it is better for one to get the complete seriology panel for celiac disease thru Promethius Labs, if you suspect you have celiac disease. But if you just think you have leaky gut or gluten intolerance causingleaky gut, then this testing would work for you. (I sent the info re Promethius Labs in another post.) Diane snoshoe_2 <[hidden email]> wrote: Here's some info. I just got. There are tests on the link. Everyone in America has Gluten Sensitivity until proven otherwise... From Dr. Fine's www.enterolab.com website: > >Note: DQ2 and DQ8 are the main Celiac ("classic intestinal villous atrophy associated with gluten intolerance") genes > >"How common are the gluten sensitivity and celiac genes? >DQ2 is present in 31% of the general American population. DQ8 (without DQ2) is present in another 12%. Thus, the main celiac genes are present in 43% of Americans. Include DQ1 (without DQ2 or DQ8), which is present in another 38%, yields the fact that at least 81% of America is genetically predisposed to gluten sensitivity. (Of those with at least one DQ1 allele, 46% have DQ1,7, 42% have DQ1,1, 11% have DQ1,4, and 1% have DQ1,9.) Of the remaining 19%, most have DQ7,7 (an allele almost identical in structure to DQ2,2, the most celiac-predisposing of genetic combinations) which in our laboratory experience is associated with strikingly high antigliadin antibody titers in many such people. Thus, it is really only those with DQ4,4 that have never been shown to have a genetic predisposition to gluten sensitivity, and this gene combination is very rare in America (but not necessarily as rare in Sub-Saharan Africa or Asia where the majority of the inhabitants are not only racially different from Caucasians, but they rarely eat gluten-containing grains, and hence, gluten-induced disease is rare). Thus, based on these data, almost all Americans, especially those descending from Europe (including Mexico and other Latin states because of the Spanish influence), the Middle East, the Near East (including India), and Russia, are genetically predisposed to gluten sensitivity. (That is why we are here doing what we do!) But be aware that if a person of any race has a gluten sensitive gene, and eats gluten, they can become gluten sensitive." > >This above quotation is from https://www.enterolab.com/StaticPages/Faq_Result_Interpretation.htm --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "eSens" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [hidden email] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- --------------------------------- How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messengers low PC-to-Phone call rates. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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In reply to this post by evie15422
Thanks Diane. You've clarified the point I was trying to make. Leaky gut
and celiac disease are not the same. Either may cause immune system problems. Therefore, testing for one will not rule out the other. Both are potentially important. In Sue's case, she has tested positive for leaky gut but not for celiac, and cutting wheat and gluten out of her diet made only a marginal improvement (and she showed a separate intolerance to these anyway, along with many other foods). We are now convinced that the leaky gut has a major bearing on her entire history of problems. The supporting evidence is that she was 100% healthy until a prolonged dose of antibiotics 7 years ago, got ME/CFS, was cured of the physical exhaustion symptoms by an anti-candida diet, but has gradually gone downhill since. It seems that some residual damage and/or bacteria were left behind. After the diet worked, we did not follow up with antifungals as recommended - possibly a mistake. Ian _____ From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Evie Sent: 16 May 2006 07:45 To: [hidden email] Subject: RE: [eSens] Leaky gut and celiac disease Hi Ligure and Ian, Sorry this info may not translate well. I am copying from a word document and it is not spacing correctly for me. Celiac testing is different than that for leaky gut. Because I belong to a large (3000+ people) celiac forum and another celiac food forum, I am up on all the research, etc, for celiac disease. There is a new home test for celiac disease, however, I regard it too new to be accurate. (I also do not regard Enterolabs tests as completely accurate, tho these can be a way to go if you are looking for gluten intolerance rather than just celiac disease.) Again, I do not know how they do this in Britain, but in the US, these are the tests for celiac disease: As a general note, these lab tests are looking for antibodies to gluten, and therefore, may not be accurate for diagnosis if someone is already maintaining a gluten free diet. It is a battery of tests, including: 1. IgA antigliadin antibodies 2. IgG antigliadin antibodies 3. Anti-endomysial IgA 4. Tissue Transglutaminase IgA 5. Total Serum IgA (note.. many people forget to run this test, so be sure to ask for it. It is important because a significant percentage of people with celiac disease have selective IgA deficiency and don't make enough IgA to make the test valid and might conclude an incorrect diagnosis). The Genetic tests look for DQ2 and DQ8 genes. It is now generally accepted that all new adult celiacs had celiac disease as children and underwent remission. Remission happens most often at the age of 11yo. Prometheus Labs--I have heard more than once that they are the most effective and knowledgeable lab in this country (US) when it comes to blood testing for Celiac testing. They test for the entire celiac panel. I was told that the serology is only $290 and the serology plus genetic test is $730 (This includes the genetic testing). Prometheus will submit to your insurance if you provide them with the information. I was told that you need a doctor's written order to take to a lab. The lab will draw the blood and send it to Prometheus for testing. If your doctor is not familiar with sending testing to them, Prometheus will ship you their specimen transport boxes at no charge. Their website is www.prometheuslabs.com and has some detailed info about the Celiac Disease Serology. Hope this answers your questions about celiac testing. As I wrote in another email, celiac tests are not always conclusive. There is a problem with false negative results more than false positive ones. As a result, some people prefer to go completely gluten-free (the treatment for celiac disease) even without positive test results. In doing so, many find relief of symptoms and then stay gf. Diane Ian Kemp <[hidden email]> wrote: The test is the "leaky gut" or "intestinal permeability" test. It's one of the most common "alternative medicine" tests, and a number of labs do it both in the UK and the USA (and probably elsewhere). They should also provide an interpretation of the results for you. from what I've heard, it's common for people with MCS or other immune system dysfunction to test positive, and this helps to explain why they are not absorbing the nutrients that usually keep the immune system and liver detox functions healthy. The problem then is what to do about it. The msot common hypothesis is that it's caused by a bacterial or yeast problem, and probiotics or an antifungal may help, depending on the person. (And also on the practitioner - there doesn't seem to be a consensus on the best treatment). Ian _____ From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Ligure Sent: 15 May 2006 04:38 To: [hidden email] Subject: RE: [eSens] Leaky gut and celiac disease You know, upon further reflection, it was two of my children that we specifically tested for celiac disease. Neither had it. I think I will have to look into that for myself. What is the name of the test so that I can order it? Thanks, Ligure _____ From: Ian Kemp [mailto:[hidden email]] Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2006 1:55 PM To: [hidden email] Subject: [eSens] Leaky gut and celiac disease Ligure, You say you have tested negative for celiac disease but was it a specific test for that? Feedback from this group seems to suggest that the majority have some sort of immune system problem, which very often seems to be linked to leaky gut. There is a general test for leaky gut (also known as intestinal permeability) involving testing the absorption/permeation of a solution of microparticles of various sizes which you drink. From our experience we would say that anyone suffering chronic fatigue, ME, MCS or ES symptoms would be well advised to do this test - we wish we had done it a lot earlier than we did. Sue tested positive for leaky gut but negative for the more specific celiac disease. Ian -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Ligure Sent: 13 May 2006 06:39 To: [hidden email] Subject: RE: [eSens] Re: Is ES an allergy? (Explanation part 2) Diane, I was trying to say the same thing you described here. Perhaps I came off the wrong way. So I think we are in alignment on the celiac way of acquiring an allergy. Basically the digestive system allows things (proteins) to pass through the walls that it should have broken down further (i.e. to amino acids). Celiac disease is one form of this problem. Generically this is called "leaky gut" syndrome. Not to be confused with Montezuma's revenge. ;-) It is leaky in that the unbroken down substance leaks from the GI tract to the bloodstream and thus is engaged by the immune system. I had been tested for celiac (as I recall) and did not have the problem. I suspected a calcium allergy and B12 allergy due to research and it was confirmed through a NAET practitioner. They also cleared it up. However they only cleared those up and not what I am leading to which is a possible allergy to EMF or as I have found on this group electrosmog (sp?). I like that term. Ligure _____ From: Evie [mailto:[hidden email]] Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 8:47 PM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [eSens] Re: Is ES an allergy? (Explanation part 2) Hi, Ligure, My understanding of allergies is much different than yours. It was explained to me that we aquire allergies when our bodies cannot break down the components of a particular food or chemical, etc, into a usable unit. Anything that is not usable AND gets into the blood stream is considered by the body to be an antigen. Our immune systems are encoded to attack antigens. Foreign substances get into our blood streams via tight junctions (like bricks in a wall, which form the wall of the gut, for instance) which are usually closed and are supposed to be closed, but react to glutens and a few other things by opening. (I have read that EMFs cause tight junctions to open.) As a celiac I am aware of this because celiacs have tight junctions which stay open not only in the small intestine, but in the blood brain barrier and lungs. (Some say also the heart.) This is why celiacs have such a high incidence of auto-immune disease--the immune system is always attacking something or other, usually undigested food particles. Our bodies cannot use many nutrients without "carriers" which escort each assigned nutrient across the intestinal wall at particular sites. B12, for instance, which you mention having problems with, is assigned a particular site where it crosses and this is also one of the first sites to be damaged in celiac disease or from gluten intolerance. The site for calcium is also one of the first to be damaged by gluten intolerance and cd. It sounds to me like you do not have an allergy to either of these, but instead have gluten intolerance or celiac disease. In celiac disease, you must not eat any glutens which are contained in wheat, rye, barley, and oats (by contamination). Nor can you eat any derivitives of these. In 6 months or so of avoidance, your small intestine will begin to heal and this will cure you of your "allergy" to B12 and calcium. I had problems with these nutrients as well. When I was finally dxed with cd, I had osteoporosis from calcium deficiency and a dexa scan of -3.50. Two years after going glutenfree, my dexa score had improved to +1.75. I am not saying that NAET or Bioset cannot work (I know nothing of either, btw). But if they work they do it on a different principal than simply "retraining". What exactly is NAET and Bioset? Have these worked, for instance, for your allergies to B12 and calcium? Diane Ligure <[hidden email]> wrote: And now the different level. Given that the body has a means of taking care of its allergen/toxic load (part 1), why did it accumulate the load in the first place? Or more to the point why do some folks have an allergy to some substance while others do not? These questions have plagued me. So, the body responds to an allergen because it was trained to do so. This may seem strange (at least it did to me) considering that there are many people's bodies which do not adversely respond to a given allergen (i.e. wheat) while others have a problem with it. How did the body acquire such an adverse response? Some might say genetics. I am going to lay that one aside just because that is the typical catchall when the "expoerts" don't know the answer. It may be the "answer" in some cases, but there or other answers that can be found before we throw in the genetic towel. How else was the body trained? Simple explanations are in order. Prolonged exposure, over exposure, or exposure at the wrong place It often happens that where at one time one has no allergic response to something to discover one day that they can no longer tolerate it. This occurs because the immune system got engaged at a deeper level than it once needed to or "decided" to engage the substance in an adversarial fashion. One example of this is the "leaky gut" syndrome. If the digestive system does not metabolize the bread and break its proteins down into amino acids, the immune system will engage the proteins as if they were foreign substances and develop an allergy. I because allergic to calcium and B12 in this way. And both of these are needed by the body. Immune system is weak during exposure This can happen by weakened associaiton. For instance if you are weakened by exposure to some chemical and you are eating bread during that exposure, your immune system may mistakenly react to the bread. The weakness may not be physical even. It could be emotional, I am sure there are other ways of training, but they are similar. Now the question is how to "untrain" the response. This is where the next level begins. Through energetic-type of medicine like NAET and Bioset the body's immune system is retaught to no longer consider a substance as an allergen. It sort of makes peace with the allergen and turns it into a peacable neighbor. So instead of having an attacking type of response which leads to histamine reactions and thus cascade into an allergic response it allow the substance to coexist and even just pass on through the body if the substance is of no use. Now this energetic medicine goes to the level that your body's "field" can tell when it comes in proximity to a substances "field" what that substance it. If your body does not want that substance (i.e. allergic response), it will begin to respond accordingly. --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS * Visit your group "HYPERLINK "HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eSens"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eSens"eSe ns" on the web. * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HYPERLINK "mailto:[hidden email]?subject=Unsubscribe"eSens-unsubscr [hidden email] * Your use of Yahoo! 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In reply to this post by Ian Kemp
Hi again, Ian,
I know of a number of celiacs who became celiac after a round of anti-biotics. I think some of these anti-bs open the tight junctions, just like celiac does. Also, I don't know if this is applicable to Sue or not, but my nutritionist tells me I will never be able to go back to a regular diet including sugar and sweeteners. He says that people who have had candida for many years never completely kill it off; they just learn to control it. He told me that I will be on a modified form of the candida diet from now on (low carb, few fruits and starches, no sugars or sweeteners, no processed foods, little or no yeast, etc and no glutens due to celiac disease). In addition, every 6 months I will need to go on a germicidal/fungicidal for a month or two to keep candida/bacterial issues in check. I am still in the initial killing phase, btw--been there for over a year. Diane Ian Kemp <[hidden email]> wrote: Thanks Diane. You've clarified the point I was trying to make. Leaky gut and celiac disease are not the same. Either may cause immune system problems. Therefore, testing for one will not rule out the other. Both are potentially important. In Sue's case, she has tested positive for leaky gut but not for celiac, and cutting wheat and gluten out of her diet made only a marginal improvement (and she showed a separate intolerance to these anyway, along with many other foods). We are now convinced that the leaky gut has a major bearing on her entire history of problems. The supporting evidence is that she was 100% healthy until a prolonged dose of antibiotics 7 years ago, got ME/CFS, was cured of the physical exhaustion symptoms by an anti-candida diet, but has gradually gone downhill since. It seems that some residual damage and/or bacteria were left behind. After the diet worked, we did not follow up with antifungals as recommended - possibly a mistake. Ian --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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> In addition, every 6 months I will
> need to go on a germicidal/fungicidal for a month or two to keep > candida/bacterial issues in check. I think that's probably wrong. I used to live on germicidals/fungicidals (mostly citrus seed extracts), but I haven't had to take any of these for years. I do however get a lot of probiotics on a daily basis (kombucha "tea", raw milk, soil based probiotics, and regular probiotics) Marc |
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In reply to this post by evie15422
Hi Diane,
Interesting what you say about sugar - certainly Sue has never been able to go back to it, it gives her instant itching and sometimes brain fog. I don't think anyone ever eliminates candida - for normal healthy people it's permanently present in the gut. But it does seem that one can get sensitized to it, or to its reaction with sugar. Seems a bit like alcoholism (absolutely no disrespect intended, it just seems to be a parallel) where one can never take even a small dose again without getting severe symptoms. Ian _____ From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Evie Sent: 17 May 2006 03:54 To: [hidden email] Subject: RE: [eSens] Leaky gut and celiac disease Hi again, Ian, I know of a number of celiacs who became celiac after a round of anti-biotics. I think some of these anti-bs open the tight junctions, just like celiac does. Also, I don't know if this is applicable to Sue or not, but my nutritionist tells me I will never be able to go back to a regular diet including sugar and sweeteners. He says that people who have had candida for many years never completely kill it off; they just learn to control it. He told me that I will be on a modified form of the candida diet from now on (low carb, few fruits and starches, no sugars or sweeteners, no processed foods, little or no yeast, etc and no glutens due to celiac disease). In addition, every 6 months I will need to go on a germicidal/fungicidal for a month or two to keep candida/bacterial issues in check. I am still in the initial killing phase, btw--been there for over a year. Diane Ian Kemp <[hidden email]> wrote: Thanks Diane. You've clarified the point I was trying to make. Leaky gut and celiac disease are not the same. Either may cause immune system problems. Therefore, testing for one will not rule out the other. Both are potentially important. In Sue's case, she has tested positive for leaky gut but not for celiac, and cutting wheat and gluten out of her diet made only a marginal improvement (and she showed a separate intolerance to these anyway, along with many other foods). We are now convinced that the leaky gut has a major bearing on her entire history of problems. The supporting evidence is that she was 100% healthy until a prolonged dose of antibiotics 7 years ago, got ME/CFS, was cured of the physical exhaustion symptoms by an anti-candida diet, but has gradually gone downhill since. It seems that some residual damage and/or bacteria were left behind. After the diet worked, we did not follow up with antifungals as recommended - possibly a mistake. Ian --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _____ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS * Visit your group "eSens <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eSens> " on the web. * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=Unsubscribe> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> . _____ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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In reply to this post by Marc Martin
Hi, Marc,
No, that is what my nutritionist told me. He said for the rest of my life I will need to kill off bacteria and fungi on a regular basis. He said years from now I might try to extend that to 8 months and then to once a year, to see if there was a particular time period I could go, but definitely he was talking about killing them off with germicidals/fungicidals. The difference could be that you do not have a propensity toward these because you are not celiac or did not have leaky gut or did not have this problem for a long period of time??? I am guessing here, but my nutritionist said there are some who do not have to do this, but the great majority who have had bacterial/fungal issues, especiallythose who have for many years, cannot go back to a normal diet or go long without addressing fungal/bacterial residuals periodically. This has also been the concensus when I have talked to most others who have been treated for these. I'd guess you are one of the lucky ones! Diane Marc Martin <[hidden email]> wrote: > In addition, every 6 months I will > need to go on a germicidal/fungicidal for a month or two to keep > candida/bacterial issues in check. I think that's probably wrong. I used to live on germicidals/fungicidals (mostly citrus seed extracts), but I haven't had to take any of these for years. I do however get a lot of probiotics on a daily basis (kombucha "tea", raw milk, soil based probiotics, and regular probiotics) Marc SPONSORED LINKS Health and wellness Health wellness product Health and wellnessprogram Health promotion and wellness Health and wellness promotion Business health wellness --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "eSens" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [hidden email] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- --------------------------------- Ring'em or ping'em. Make PC-to-phone calls as low as 1¢/min with Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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In reply to this post by Ian Kemp
Hi Ian,
I think that the difference between normal healthy people and people likeSue and me is the leaky gut. In normal people, the candida stays in the gut. With Sue and me, we could have it thru-out our tissues. I had jaw joint tissue that was dead and doctors just called it "necrosis", but my nutritionist said it could have been from candida/other bacteria. Diane Ian Kemp <[hidden email]> wrote: Hi Diane, Interesting what you say about sugar - certainly Sue has never been able to go back to it, it gives her instant itching and sometimes brain fog. I don't think anyone ever eliminates candida - for normal healthy people it's permanently present in the gut. But it does seem that one can get sensitized to it, or to its reaction with sugar. Seems a bit like alcoholism (absolutely no disrespect intended, it just seems to be a parallel) where one can never take even a small dose again without getting severe symptoms. Ian --------------------------------- Ring'em or ping'em. Make PC-to-phone calls as low as 1¢/min with Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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