Help replacing Laptop

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Help replacing Laptop

alexfradiani
Hi, All.

I'm a software developer who's attached to the computer everyday and spends a lot of hours in front of the screen.
Recently I've experienced that touching the computer while typing (I have a MacbookPro 15" from 2012) is giving me a weird sensation of weakness and discomfort in the arms, is not the usual sensation from an electric shock, is more like an internal unfunny tickle that starts from the base of the fingers and passes to the arms and shoulders.
I changed the keyboard and the mouse to external ones and it got a bit better but as I keep working the sensation comes again.
Thinking initially that is a laptop problem and that is producing static electricity I bought an antistatic wrist, but I'm not seeing any major difference having it.

Is it correct to talk about EMF sensitivity? I'm really worried about this because this is critical for my work and I need to find first an explanation and second a solution that doesn't involve cutting the use of the computer.

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Re: Help replacing Laptop

Marc Martin
Administrator
That sounds like an EMF sensitivity sort of issue.  I have problems touching a smart phone that sounds kinda similar.  

In my experience, all computers are not created equal when it comes to how tolerable they are.  For instance, one particular model may cause all sorts of problems, while another doesn't cause any at all.  And it's not obvious what the difference is.

If this a laptop coming from your employer, then you're limited in what you can do.  If not, you can try a different model, or swap out the hard drive (an SSD drive may be more tolerable than a conventional drive, and I found the Hitachi conventional drive technology to be the worst).  Also, disabling the wi-fi or running it off of batteries might help.  Or playing with the resolution and level of dimming on the screen.  

I never had much luck with shielding stuff like this, although maybe others have.  I guess you could try grounding it to something other than yourself, but I'm not sure how much that would help.  An external monitor, keyboard, and mouse with long extension cords may help as well, and it may help some more to add ferrites to the cords, or in an extreme case, break the electrical connection by using fiber optics.  

Also, try to remove all metal from your person when using the computer.  That includes wedding rings, car keys, eyeglasses with metal frames, and if you've got the money, metal dental work.

Also, when you become sensitive to a laptop, it may be just a matter of time before you become sensitive to other things -- smart phones, anything wireless, energy efficient lighting and appliances... so you might want to look at reducing your overall exposure, and maybe that will also indirectly help with the laptop.

There are also EMF protection devices that sound like they might be snake oil, but they do work for some people.  I was out of work for a year (also a computer job) until I found some of these that worked for me.

Marc
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Re: Help replacing Laptop

James
What about wearing rubber gloves?  Could that help?

James


From: "Marc Martin [via ES]" <[hidden email]>
To: "James" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2016 6:43:10 PM
Subject: [ES] Re: Help replacing Laptop

That sounds like an EMF sensitivity sort of issue.  I have problems touching a smart phone that sounds kinda similar.  

In my experience, all computers are not created equal when it comes to how tolerable they are.  For instance, one particular model may cause all sorts of problems, while another doesn't cause any at all.  And it's not obvious what the difference is.

If this a laptop coming from your employer, then you're limited in what you can do.  If not, you can try a different model, or swap out the hard drive (an SSD drive may be more tolerable than a conventional drive, and I found the Hitachi conventional drive technology to be the worst).  Also, disabling the wi-fi or running it off of batteries might help.  Or playing with the resolution and level of dimming on the screen.  

I never had much luck with shielding stuff like this, although maybe others have.  I guess you could try grounding it to something other than yourself, but I'm not sure how much that would help.  An external monitor, keyboard, and mouse with long extension cords may help as well, and it may help some more to add ferrites to the cords, or in an extreme case, break the electrical connection by using fiber optics.  

Also, try to remove all metal from your person when using the computer.  That includes wedding rings, car keys, eyeglasses with metal frames, and if you've got the money, metal dental work.

Also, when you become sensitive to a laptop, it may be just a matter of time before you become sensitive to other things -- smart phones, anything wireless, energy efficient lighting and appliances... so you might want to look at reducing your overall exposure, and maybe that will also indirectly help with the laptop.

There are also EMF protection devices that sound like they might be snake oil, but they do work for some people.  I was out of work for a year (also a computer job) until I found some of these that worked for me.

Marc



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Re: Help replacing Laptop

Marc Martin
Administrator
On May 25, "James [via ES]" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> What about wearing rubber gloves? Could that help?

Maybe if the main problem is an electrification of the keyboard, but a lot of the EMF sensitivity we see is due to stuff that's being generated in the air, for which rubber gloves would have little effect.  Also, some of the stuff that people react to goes straight through rubber.

Marc
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Re: Help replacing Laptop

alexfradiani
well I'm starting to think that is not something directly related to an electric sensitivity but rather something with my nerves from the fingers, maybe these could be symptoms of carpal tunnel syndrome?
In any case, it cannot be described as pain, I've noticed that I can trigger the sensation if I move the base of my fingers, specially the middle finger, around other surfaces as well, last night after several hours of work I think I was irritated and the feeling was there even when not doing anything with my hands.

On Thu, May 26, 2016 at 2:47 PM Marc Martin [via ES] <[hidden email]> wrote:
On May 25, "James [via ES]" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> What about wearing rubber gloves? Could that help?

Maybe if the main problem is an electrification of the keyboard, but a lot of the EMF sensitivity we see is due to stuff that's being generated in the air, for which rubber gloves would have little effect.  Also, some of the stuff that people react to goes straight through rubber.

Marc



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Re: Help replacing Laptop

roma247
If you suspect carpal tunnel or something similar, I would recommend reading "Pain Free at your PC" by Pete Egoscue.  My husband is also a developer, and when he started having serious issues, he actually found a practitioner that uses the Egoscue method...and has been amazed how much it helps.


If it is a sensitivity, I can tell you that what you describe definitely does describe the sensation I get when using a laptop.  The only mouse I can use without major problems is an older, non-wifi tablet by Wacom, and rather than wearing a shielding glove, I just have it sitting under my hand.

I cannot use a laptop keyboard for any real length of time.  Only using an external keyboard ever helps me with that.  Voice recognition software is also helpful, but probably wouldn't work for the nature of what you need to do.

And as for brands of electronics, I have tended to have the best luck with higher-end Dell equipment for my sensitivities.  But your mileage may vary.

Lisa


Good Luck.
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Re: Help replacing Laptop

Marc Martin
Administrator
Supposedly one of the B-Vitamins helps with carpal tunnel, I can't recall which one.  

But yes, some keyboard hurt my wrists more than others.  I use old IBM keyboards which are far more ergonomic than modern ones.

Marc
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Re: Help replacing Laptop

Marc Martin
Administrator
In reply to this post by roma247
> And as for brands of electronics, I have tended to have the best luck with
> higher-end Dell equipment for my sensitivities.  But your mileage may vary.

Yes, I've used business towers from Dell at work, and they are good.  I use business towers from Lenovo at home, also good.

Marc
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Re: Help replacing Laptop

SuperLaura
In reply to this post by alexfradiani
Sounds like it could definitely be electrical/magnetic.

Like what was suggested before try using the laptop only when it's on battery, not when it's charging. If you absolutely have to use it while charging make sure it's a grounded 3 prong charger not a 2 prong charger.

It could also be high magnetic fields depending on your laptop. Using an external keyboard and mouse may help but it might not be enough depending on the strength of the field. Put as much distance between you and the laptop. Put it on a table and push it further from you.. You can have the keyboard and mouse close but put more distance between you and the laptop.
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Re: Help replacing Laptop

Patricia
In reply to this post by alexfradiani
i use helichrysum essential oil to help when i have a nerve problem. 
i used it last week when i had shooting pains in my wrists.  
also, PanAway and Valor have helichrysum in them and they are marvelous.  
it works well for me.  
but bottomline, you also need to find out where the electronic irritant is - 
and take care of yourself.  
i was getting bad wrist "stabs" from the wifi weather station.  when it was 
turned off (at least temporarily), that went away.  
i believe my "every morning" foot and leg cramps were coming from my 
roommate's prius...  as he drove off to work.  my mylar tent bed took 
care of that.  
it's good to practice your sherlock holmes skills when you are ES.  :)  
love, patricia 


On May 26, 2016, at 2:19 PM, alexfradiani [via ES] wrote:

well I'm starting to think that is not something directly related to an electric sensitivity but rather something with my nerves from the fingers, maybe these could be symptoms of carpal tunnel syndrome?
In any case, it cannot be described as pain, I've noticed that I can trigger the sensation if I move the base of my fingers, specially the middle finger, around other surfaces as well, last night after several hours of work I think I was irritated and the feeling was there even when not doing anything with my hands.

On Thu, May 26, 2016 at 2:47 PM Marc Martin [via ES] <<a href="x-msg://136/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&amp;node=4029297&amp;i=0" target="_top" rel="nofollow" link="external">[hidden email]> wrote:
On May 25, "James [via ES]" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> What about wearing rubber gloves? Could that help?

Maybe if the main problem is an electrification of the keyboard, but a lot of the EMF sensitivity we see is due to stuff that's being generated in the air, for which rubber gloves would have little effect.  Also, some of the stuff that people react to goes straight through rubber.

Marc



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Re: Help replacing Laptop

alexfradiani

I'm getting very discouraged by this whole situation, and forgive my current pessimistic view but is something like this: you just can't trust practically anybody. Standard medicine doesn't care and if it does provides solutions based on some pharmaceutical consumption, they will say it is a psichosomatic symptom and you should take a pill and relax. On the other hand, there's people also selling their products promising to protect you from EMF, in the meantime I have to look out for money I don't have to actually buy the measurement devices and the protective products, and is not sure that they are going to work in the first place.

Excuse the whining, take this as a a temporary expression of frustation. I'm kinda stuck, I can't stop working and literally my current life dependes on using the computer, so as today I'm just resisting these symptoms.

On May 28, 2016 9:18 AM, "Patricia [via ES]" <[hidden email]> wrote:
i use helichrysum essential oil to help when i have a nerve problem. 
i used it last week when i had shooting pains in my wrists.  
also, PanAway and Valor have helichrysum in them and they are marvelous.  
it works well for me.  
but bottomline, you also need to find out where the electronic irritant is - 
and take care of yourself.  
i was getting bad wrist "stabs" from the wifi weather station.  when it was 
turned off (at least temporarily), that went away.  
i believe my "every morning" foot and leg cramps were coming from my 
roommate's prius...  as he drove off to work.  my mylar tent bed took 
care of that.  
it's good to practice your sherlock holmes skills when you are ES.  :)  
love, patricia 


On May 26, 2016, at 2:19 PM, alexfradiani [via ES] wrote:

well I'm starting to think that is not something directly related to an electric sensitivity but rather something with my nerves from the fingers, maybe these could be symptoms of carpal tunnel syndrome?
In any case, it cannot be described as pain, I've noticed that I can trigger the sensation if I move the base of my fingers, specially the middle finger, around other surfaces as well, last night after several hours of work I think I was irritated and the feeling was there even when not doing anything with my hands.

On Thu, May 26, 2016 at 2:47 PM Marc Martin [via ES] <<a href="x-msg://136/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&amp;node=4029297&amp;i=0" target="_top" rel="nofollow" link="external">[hidden email]> wrote:
On May 25, "James [via ES]" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> What about wearing rubber gloves? Could that help?

Maybe if the main problem is an electrification of the keyboard, but a lot of the EMF sensitivity we see is due to stuff that's being generated in the air, for which rubber gloves would have little effect.  Also, some of the stuff that people react to goes straight through rubber.

Marc



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Re: Help replacing Laptop

earthworm
Human rats are everywhere.
It's indeed wise to be sceptical, just try out the free stuff, like suggestions given within this forum.
In my experience grounding the laptop (  or external monitor, only one of the two ), avoiding wireless ( no wifi, no mobile phones or otherwise at least on the speakerphone ) and keeping maximum distance are the most important first steps.
That is, in case your problems are related to sensitivity to man-made emf-s.