Fwd: filter / meter testing

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Marc Martin

Apr 04, 2010; 10:24pm

Fwd: filter / meter testing

Administrator

Oh sorry... the last line was wrong. Here is a correction:

Baseline reading (baseline vacuum off) Stetzer=120, Entech=20
No vaccum, Furman PST-10D plugged in: Stetzer=83, Entech=7
No vacuum, Quantum outlet plugged in: Stetzer=100, Entech=44
No vacuum, Blue Circle Power Line pillow plugged in: Stezter=80, Entech=0.1
No vacuum, PS Audio Noise Harvester plugged in: Stetzer=108, Entech=0.4
No vacuum, Tripp Lite Isobar (new) plugged in: Stetzer=155, Entech=6
No vaccum, Power Sentry power strip plugged in: Stetzer=113, Entech=58

Vacuum turned on, no filtering (baseline vacuum on) Stetzer=1540, Entech=121
Vacuum on, plugged into Furman PST-10D: Stetzer=399, Entech=7
Vaccum on, plugged into Quantum outlet: Stetzer=1400, Entech=130
Vaccum on, Blue Circle Power line pillow plugged in: Stetzer=499, Entech=3
Vacuum on, PS Audio Noise Harvester plugged in: Stetzer=680, Entech=0.4
Vacuum on, Tripp Lite Isobar (new) plugged in: Stetzer=584, Entech=6
Vacuum on, plugged into Power Sentry power strip: Stezter=1035, Entech=16

BiBrun

Apr 05, 2010; 12:39am

Re: Fwd: filter / meter testing

Some of this is hard to explain, and perhaps worth figuring out.
So if you plug in the Power Sentry, the reading on the Entech goes up?
But then you plug the vacuum into it and the reading is lower than baseline?

Does the vacuum bother you, and does it have a variable speed motor or any
electronics? Does the Power Sentry have a display or any controls?

The fact that your background drops when plugging in a filter
makes sense... this is from the capacitance. But that also means
there is current flowing from the device to the filter, which could
make matters worse for humans unless you are far away.

I suppose when the readings go up from plugging in the filter it is
either from a resonance or from active electronics in the filter.

I was a bit surprised how if I plug the Entech in close to the DSL router
I can hear a buzz, but if I plug it in far away (another outlet on the same
phase) I don't hear it and the reading is lower. So the impedance of the
wires matter.

On Sun, Apr 4, 2010 at 4:24 PM, Marc Martin <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> Oh sorry... the last line was wrong. Here is a correction:
>
> Baseline reading (baseline vacuum off) Stetzer=120, Entech=20
>
> No vaccum, Furman PST-10D plugged in: Stetzer=83, Entech=7
> No vacuum, Quantum outlet plugged in: Stetzer=100, Entech=44
> No vacuum, Blue Circle Power Line pillow plugged in: Stezter=80, Entech=0.1
> No vacuum, PS Audio Noise Harvester plugged in: Stetzer=108, Entech=0.4
> No vacuum, Tripp Lite Isobar (new) plugged in: Stetzer=155, Entech=6
> No vaccum, Power Sentry power strip plugged in: Stetzer=113, Entech=58
>
> Vacuum turned on, no filtering (baseline vacuum on) Stetzer=1540,
> Entech=121
>
> Vacuum on, plugged into Furman PST-10D: Stetzer=399, Entech=7
> Vaccum on, plugged into Quantum outlet: Stetzer=1400, Entech=130
> Vaccum on, Blue Circle Power line pillow plugged in: Stetzer=499, Entech=3
> Vacuum on, PS Audio Noise Harvester plugged in: Stetzer=680, Entech=0.4
> Vacuum on, Tripp Lite Isobar (new) plugged in: Stetzer=584, Entech=6
> Vacuum on, plugged into Power Sentry power strip: Stezter=1035, Entech=16
>
>
>

... [show rest of quote]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

steve

Apr 05, 2010; 1:09am

Re: Fwd: filter / meter testing

In reply to this post by Marc Martin

OK, I was wondering why the Power Sentry seemed so effective.
Looks like the Furman got the most balanced results with the PS Audio and Tripplite and Blue Circle performing well also.

--- On Sun, 4/4/10, Marc Martin <[hidden email]> wrote:

> From: Marc Martin <[hidden email]>
> Subject: [eSens] Fwd: filter / meter testing
> To: [hidden email]
> Date: Sunday, April 4, 2010, 3:24 PM
> Oh sorry... the last line was
> wrong. Here is a correction:
>
> Baseline reading (baseline vacuum off)
>    Stetzer=120,
> Entech=20
> No vaccum, Furman PST-10D plugged in:
>
> Stetzer=83,   Entech=7
> No vacuum, Quantum outlet plugged in:
> Stetzer=100,
> Entech=44
> No vacuum, Blue Circle Power Line pillow plugged in:
> Stezter=80,   Entech=0.1
> No vacuum, PS Audio Noise Harvester plugged in:
> Stetzer=108, Entech=0.4
> No vacuum, Tripp Lite Isobar (new) plugged in:
>    Stetzer=155, Entech=6
> No vaccum, Power Sentry power strip plugged in:
> Stetzer=113, Entech=58
>
> Vacuum turned on, no filtering (baseline vacuum on)
> Stetzer=1540, Entech=121
> Vacuum on, plugged into Furman PST-10D:
> Stetzer=399, Entech=7
> Vaccum on, plugged into Quantum outlet:
> Stetzer=1400, Entech=130
> Vaccum on, Blue Circle Power line pillow plugged in:
> Stetzer=499, Entech=3
> Vacuum on, PS Audio Noise Harvester plugged in:
> Stetzer=680, Entech=0.4
> Vacuum on, Tripp Lite Isobar (new) plugged in:
>    Stetzer=584, Entech=6
> Vacuum on, plugged into Power Sentry power strip:
> Stezter=1035, Entech=16
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
> [hidden email]
>
>
>

... [show rest of quote]

Marc Martin

Apr 05, 2010; 2:17am

Re: Fwd: filter / meter testing

Administrator

In reply to this post by BiBrun

> So if you plug in the Power Sentry, the reading on the Entech goes up?
> But then you plug the vacuum into it and the reading is lower than
> baseline?
> Baseline reading (baseline vacuum off) Stetzer=120, Entech=20
> No vaccum, Power Sentry power strip plugged in: Stetzer=113, Entech=58

Oh! That's another error. If I plug in the Power Sentry strip,
then the reading *does* go up, but only when the strip is turned
off. When I turn the strip on, then the reading instantly drops to
less than 1.

> Does the vacuum bother you, and does it have a variable speed motor or
> any electronics? Does the Power Sentry have a display or any controls?

The vacuum does have a variable speed motor, although it was probably
set to maximum. The Power Sentry has a ground lite and surge light
and also an on/off switch. The vacuum probably would bother me if
I had it on for extended periods of time, but it doesn't in the
amount of time it takes to vacuum the house.

Marc

Marc Martin

Apr 05, 2010; 2:24am

Re: Fwd: filter / meter testing

Administrator

In reply to this post by steve

> Looks like the Furman got the most balanced results with the PS Audio and
> Tripplite and Blue Circle performing well also.

The Blue Circle gives me side effects like the Stetzer filters do... I think
it works about the same way, except it probably has a higher quality
capacitor.

I was surprised about the PS Audio Noise Harvesters -- I never thought these
actually did anything (I certainly never noticed them doing anything), yet
they actually did quite a lot when the vacuum was turned on.

I should look around and see what else I can test, then do this all over
again... I know I missed the Brick Wall filter, as my wife was using her
computer at the time. :-)

Marc

steve

Apr 05, 2010; 2:38am

Re: Fwd: filter / meter testing

The Brick Wall is being used for her computer? I never even thought of that, usually they are used for audio/video. I am curious as to what the readout would be

--- On Sun, 4/4/10, Marc Martin <[hidden email]> wrote:

> From: Marc Martin <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [eSens] Fwd: filter / meter testing
> To: [hidden email]
> Date: Sunday, April 4, 2010, 7:24 PM
> > Looks like the Furman got the
> most balanced results with the PS Audio and
> > Tripplite and Blue Circle performing well also.
>
> The Blue Circle gives me side effects like the Stetzer
> filters do... I think
> it works about the same way, except it probably has a
> higher quality
> capacitor.
>
> I was surprised about the PS Audio Noise Harvesters -- I
> never thought these
> actually did anything (I certainly never noticed them doing
> anything), yet
> they actually did quite a lot when the vacuum was turned
> on.
>
> I should look around and see what else I can test, then do
> this all over
> again... I know I missed the Brick Wall filter, as my wife
> was using her
> computer at the time. :-)
>
> Marc
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
> [hidden email]
>
>
>

... [show rest of quote]

BiBrun

Apr 05, 2010; 4:21am

Re: Fwd: filter / meter testing

The test results are interesting, but it might make more sense
to use something that you'd expect to bother you (and ideally
get someone else to do it).

I would say that the Blue Circle seems to have the most capacitance of the
bunch, based on how the Entech readings drop.
Some digital multimeters (including one I have) can measure capacitance. Of
course the measurement on a filter is a bit suspect, since there are
(hopefully) inductors in there too... but I think it's still pretty close
and at least gives some idea of leakage current (the other way to check is
to plug it in and measure 60Hz current... if you have a clamp-on ammeter and
the capacitance is large enough this is easy... or measure the magnetic
field at a specific point close to the outlet might give a good relative
reading; it will also illustrate why Stetzer filters near your bed are a
bad idea).

Filter concepts sells some medical low-leakage filters that leak
only a few microamps (which means low capacitance). Unfortunately they
don't have plugs so you need to wire them into a box (and add a fuse).

On Sun, Apr 4, 2010 at 8:38 PM, Steve G <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> The Brick Wall is being used for her computer? I never even thought of
> that, usually they are used for audio/video. I am curious as to what the
> readout would be
>
>
> --- On Sun, 4/4/10, Marc Martin <[hidden email] <marc%40ufoseries.com>>
> wrote:
>
> > From: Marc Martin <[hidden email] <marc%40ufoseries.com>>
> > Subject: Re: [eSens] Fwd: filter / meter testing
> > To: [hidden email] <eSens%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Date: Sunday, April 4, 2010, 7:24 PM
>
> > > Looks like the Furman got the
> > most balanced results with the PS Audio and
> > > Tripplite and Blue Circle performing well also.
> >
> > The Blue Circle gives me side effects like the Stetzer
> > filters do... I think
> > it works about the same way, except it probably has a
> > higher quality
> > capacitor.
> >
> > I was surprised about the PS Audio Noise Harvesters -- I
> > never thought these
> > actually did anything (I certainly never noticed them doing
> > anything), yet
> > they actually did quite a lot when the vacuum was turned
> > on.
> >
> > I should look around and see what else I can test, then do
> > this all over
> > again... I know I missed the Brick Wall filter, as my wife
> > was using her
> > computer at the time. :-)
> >
> > Marc
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> > [hidden email]<eSens-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com>
> >
> >
> >
>
>

... [show rest of quote]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Marc Martin

Apr 05, 2010; 5:24am

Re: Fwd: filter / meter testing

Administrator

> The test results are interesting, but it might make more sense
> to use something that you'd expect to bother you

Well, the thing that bothers me the most is my Blu-Ray player,
but according to these meters, the Blu-Ray player isn't raising
the meter readings at all...

Marc

S Andreason

Apr 05, 2010; 5:30pm

Re: Fwd: filter / meter testing

Marc Martin wrote:
> Well, the thing that bothers me the most is my Blu-Ray player,
> but according to these meters, the Blu-Ray player isn't raising
> the meter readings at all...
>

Then the emissions are not being put out in the wiring, but are in the air.

They should show up on other meters, like AM radio, Zap Checker or
Acoustimeter.

Stewart

Marc Martin

Apr 05, 2010; 6:32pm

Re: Fwd: filter / meter testing

Administrator

> > Well, the thing that bothers me the most is my Blu-Ray player,
> > but according to these meters, the Blu-Ray player isn't raising
> > the meter readings at all...
>
> Then the emissions are not being put out in the wiring, but are in the
> air.
>
> They should show up on other meters, like AM radio, Zap Checker or
> Acoustimeter.

Actually, I did test my Blu-Ray player with AM radio, and the amount
of emissions didn't seem like they should be causing much of a
problem. I suppose chemical offgassing might be a possibility...

Marc

Marc Martin

Apr 05, 2010; 6:55pm

Re: filter / meter testing

Administrator

In reply to this post by Marc Martin

> > The test results are interesting, but it might make more sense
> > to use something that you'd expect to bother you

Also, I wonder if I should be testing the power strips in two
different ways:

#1. vacuum plugged into power strip, check noise from outlet

#2. vacuum plugged into outlet, check noise from power strip

The latter would be useful if you are trying to prevent
power line noise from reaching your computer/monitor, so it
does not propagate that noise onto you (if that actually
is what happens)

Marc

BiBrun

Apr 05, 2010; 7:27pm

Re: filter / meter testing

It is pretty surprising the blu-ray player doesn't register.

Is there any indication it has its own filters?

Does it show up on both ends of the AM dial?

On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 12:55 PM, Marc Martin <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> > > The test results are interesting, but it might make more sense
> > > to use something that you'd expect to bother you
>
> Also, I wonder if I should be testing the power strips in two
> different ways:
>
> #1. vacuum plugged into power strip, check noise from outlet
>
> #2. vacuum plugged into outlet, check noise from power strip
>
> The latter would be useful if you are trying to prevent
> power line noise from reaching your computer/monitor, so it
> does not propagate that noise onto you (if that actually
> is what happens)
>
> Marc
>
>

... [show rest of quote]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Marc Martin

Apr 05, 2010; 7:32pm

Re: filter / meter testing

Administrator

> It is pretty surprising the blu-ray player doesn't register.
>
> Is there any indication it has its own filters?
>
> Does it show up on both ends of the AM dial?

I'll have to check -- all I know is that powering it up had
no effect on the Entech or Stetzer, but note that I plug
the Bluray player into my Furman power strip. :-) (I guess
I should test it plugged straight into an outlet) As for the
radio, I recall it producing some faint noise at close
range when the radio was tuned in between some stations.

Marc