Digital converter (for t.v.) problems - help appreciated

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Svetaswan-2

Apr 19, 2010; 9:05pm

Re: Digital converter (for t.v.) problems - help appreciated

--- In [hidden email], "Marc Martin" <marc@...> wrote:

>
> > Here I was assuming that the external power supply of my troublesome
> > laptop was also a switching power supply - but could that actually be
> > linear as well?
>
> Laptop power supplies *are* often switching -- what does it say on
> the label? If it says something like INPUT: AC 120 - 240 volts 50/60 hz,
> then it *is* a switching power supply (because it can handle a very
> wide range of input voltage)
>
> Marc
>

----------------

The power supply of my Dell laptop says,

INPUT: 100 - 240V ~ 1.5A 50-60Hz
OUTPUT: 19.5V -- 3.34A

So the INPUT is pretty much exactly as you indicated for a switching power supply.

Obviously, I have an even poorer understanding of what constitutes a switching power supply than I thought. This is an embarrassing admission for *this* forum - but I was pretty much under the assumption that any "brick"-like structure that's somewhere along the power cord was a switching power supply. I thought that all such bricks "tamp down current" in such a way thatRF frequencies are produced. (IIRC, the Prevention Magazine article pretty much explained it in this way.)

So if the power supply of the Digital Adapter is linear - why does the AM radio test indicate that the power supply and the cord are "RF hotspots"? Am I "hearing" the AM radio wrong? Or could this be a sign that our house'selectrical wiring is "polluted" with RF?

I just hate that I have to even entertain the idea of switching or "upgrading" my t.v./cable service just to have a more tolerable bedroom environment. For the most part, I'm satisfied with getting just basic cable in my bedroom - right now, I'm not looking to get DVR service, an expanded channel package, or anything like that (and absorb the extra costs associated with this). I wish there was a simpler solution - that didn't involve going backto 1980.

I mean, I certainly don't need this extra headache on top of the massive one I'm dealing with regarding my "computer woes".

~Svetaswan

Marc Martin

Apr 19, 2010; 9:23pm

Re: Digital converter (for t.v.) problems - help

Administrator

> The power supply of my Dell laptop says
> INPUT: 100 - 240V ~ 1.5A 50-60Hz
> OUTPUT: 19.5V -- 3.34A

Yes, now THAT is a switching power supply. :-) If you could find
a power supply that only works for 120V 60Hz input, and outputs
19.5 V with 3.34 (or more) amps, then that would be a non-switching
equivalent. And you may need to find a plug adapter so you can
plug it into your laptop.

> I thought that all such bricks "tamp down
> current" in such a way that RF frequencies are produced.

Well yes, they do, although some of the folks on this group
believe that the switching power supplies are particularly
bad for people with ES. In my own experiments however,
I've found that plugging in a switching power supply sometimes
will LOWER the meter readings on my Stetzer meter (?!)

> So if the power supply of the Digital Adapter is linear - why does the AM
> radio test indicate that the power supply and the cord are "RF hotspots"?
> Am I "hearing" the AM radio wrong?

I would think that any AC/DC power transformer is going to produce RF
noise, not just the switching kind.

> I just hate that I have to even entertain the idea of switching or
> "upgrading" my t.v./cable service just to have a more tolerable bedroom
> environment. I wish there was a simpler solution - that
> didn't involve going back to 1980.

Well, I'm sure there is an EMF protection device that you could probably
stick onto the power supply that would reduce your symptoms. The problem
is that you'd probably have to try about 10 different ones (or more!)
before you found one that works well for you. Although maybe fewer
if you just stick to the ones that have worked for other eSens
members.

Marc

Svetaswan-2

Apr 19, 2010; 9:28pm

Re: Digital converter (for t.v.) problems - help appreciated

In reply to this post by charles-4

I'm sorry - I thought that I looked over that website carefully enough to spot a link to the English version. I guess not. I suppose the mistake shows how stressed I am (and "brain-dead" - especially in front of this computer!).

And I thought I was doing well to "recognize" the Dutch - or so I thought. (Sometimes I can "recognize" a language - even if I don't understand a word of it. :) ) I guess I should have known that I am way too mentally-foggyto distinguish Dutch from German.

I admire Europeans and how you are often fluent in English and other "non-native" languages. Most of us here in the U.S. can't even speak Spanish (the language of many of our close neighbors and of so many U.S. residents) - let alone other languages.

I'm afraid that I have a *lot* to learn to even understand how the product you recommended works - let alone how to install it. Do those filters filter out the "dirty electricity" coming into the home?

~Svetaswan

--- In [hidden email], "charles" <charles@...> wrote:

>
> You do not understand dutch ?
> It is not dutch, but german.
> (Lots of germans do not understand dutch, although these languages are quite
> familiar. English is grammatically the easiest language in the world.)
>
> No problem.
>
> Just click on the english flag, and by magic, the text changes into english.
>
> By breaker cabinet I mean the cabinet weher all the fuses and breakers are,
> where the main electricity cables enter the house.
> It is also the place where the meter for your electricity consumption is
> placed.
>
> Greetings,
> Charles Claessens
> member Verband Baubiologie
> www.milieuziektes.nl
> www.milieuziektes.be
> www.hetbitje.nl
> checked by Norton
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "svetaswan" <svetaswan@...>
> To: <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 4:57 AM
> Subject: [eSens] Re: Digital converter (for t.v.) problems - help
> appreciated
>
>
> >
> >
> > Well, not only do I have almost no hands-on tech experience - I don't
> > understand Dutch. Is there a way in which you can explain to me in English
> > what you are referring to? By "breaker cabinet", do you mean the
> > switching power supply (a.k.a. the "power brick" located at the end of the
> > cord)?
> >
> > Are there English-language instructions located somewhere (that's
> > preferably novice-friendly) on how to do this?
> >
> > ~Svetaswan
> >
> > --- In [hidden email], "charles" <charles@> wrote:
> >>
> >> Yes,
> >>
> >> the TV as well as the digital converter box do make *dirty power* as well
> >> as
> >> *dirty air*.
> >>
> >> There are big filters, which can be placed inside the breaker cabinet.
> >> (For instance www.bajog.de)
> >>
> >> Greetings,
> >> Charles Claessens
> >> member Verband Baubiologie
> >> www.milieuziektes.nl
> >> www.milieuziektes.be
> >> www.hetbitje.nl
> >> checked by Norton
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "cris_aov" <cris_aov@>
> >> To: <[hidden email]>
> >> Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 9:58 AM
> >> Subject: [eSens] Re: Digital converter (for t.v.) problems - help
> >> appreciated
> >>
> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > I think the power supply may be the main problem, the power supplies
> >> > used
> >> > for almost all of our electronics are called "switching power supplies"
> >> > and these generate a lot of RF noise by the very nature of how they
> >> > work.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Ive found that when you electrically connect two devices (like your tv
> >> > to
> >> > the DA converter box) in which each device has its own power supply,
> >> > this
> >> > can sometimes create some really nasty results, I think this is what
> >> > happens
> >> >
> >> > 1. power supply for dac box generates a lot of rf noise
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > 2. rf noise from power supply travels to DA box and adds to the rf
> >> > being
> >> > generated by the da box itself (the bulk of the total rf noise will be
> >> > more than likely from the power supply)
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > 3. all this RF then travels to the TV and the TV "amplifies" all this
> >> > nasty rf noise as well as the rf already generated by the TVs power
> >> > supply
> >> > and the TV itself.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Theres two things you have to do which I can think of that will makea
> >> > big
> >> > difference, the one that will make the major difference is number 1
> >> >
> >> > 1. Replace the "switching power supply" of the DA box with a "linear
> >> > power
> >> > supply", a "linear power supply" works differently than a "switching
> >> > power
> >> > supply" , a linear power supply generates no rf or only extremely
> >> > little.
> >> > Another alternative would be to replace it with a high capacity battery
> >> > but this might not be most convenient solution.
> >> >
> >> > 2. Have each device plugged into its own rf isolated surge protector,
> >> > something like a tripp lite isobar or the one Marc uses.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > -Cris
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > ------------------------------------
> >> >
> >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

... [show rest of quote]

Svetaswan-2

Apr 19, 2010; 10:48pm

Re: Digital converter (for t.v.) problems - help appreciated

In reply to this post by Marc Martin

--- In [hidden email], "Marc Martin" <marc@...> wrote:
>

>
> Yes, now THAT is a switching power supply. :-) If you could find
> a power supply that only works for 120V 60Hz input, and outputs
> 19.5 V with 3.34 (or more) amps, then that would be a non-switching
> equivalent. And you may need to find a plug adapter so you can
> plug it into your laptop.

--------->So would finding a non-switching equivalent power supply reduce the "harmful emissions" coming out of the laptop itself - and lead to a moretolerable computer?

I'm pretty sure that this laptop is out-of-warranty - so from that standpoint, at least - I can "experiment" with the power supply and other options. I guess I also feel free to "tinker" with Comcast's digital adapter, sinceit was provided free-of-charge. But there is no such freedom with newly-purchased appliances. For example, if I bought a Macbook Pro - and wanted to subsitute the switching power supply with a linear power supply - it would automatically void the warranty. Voiding warranties is definitely something that I want to avoid - especially with something as expensive as a Macbook Pro! ~Svetaswan

>
> I would think that any AC/DC power transformer is going to produce RF
> noise, not just the switching kind.

-------->So is it a matter of degree? Is it that all (AC/DC) power supplies produce RF noise, but the switching power supplies just produce a lot more of it? Or is it that switching power supplies generate higher-frequency RF noise than their linear counterparts? ~Svetaswan

>
>
> Well, I'm sure there is an EMF protection device that you could probably
> stick onto the power supply that would reduce your symptoms. The problem
> is that you'd probably have to try about 10 different ones (or more!)
> before you found one that works well for you. Although maybe fewer
> if you just stick to the ones that have worked for other eSens
> members.
>
> Marc
>

------->Speaking of protection devices - I just ordered some more products from emfblues.com. I've had mixed results with their products (for the sake of brevity and conserving my limited energy, I won't get into specifics) - but I ordered some different products than what I had ordered previously...we'll see how it goes. I plan to test at least a couple of the products on the digital adapter.

If the emfblues products don't do the job, I'll try to branch out (if I canafford it) and try the products that you and others have mentioned.

Also...could plugging the digital adapter into a Furman strip make a significant difference? Or could shielding the skinny cable improve things (one of those "emf protection" websites sells a bunch of different shielding materials - cable shields being one)? Or putting some type of shielding over the adapter itself?

Also - I don't have a good concept/understanding of this, but it's my understanding that devices that operate off of DC current, and/or are attached to an AC/DC adapter - are not "grounded". Allegedly, this could result in the electrical charge "floating" to high levels, and could contribute to symptoms for some e.s.ers. I wonder if I tried "grounding" the device, would that make a difference?

I also noticed that the power supply's plug is not 3-pronged (grounded) - although it is plugged into a surge protecter that *is* 3-pronged. Does plugging a 2-pronged device into a 3-pronged power strip "ground" the device?

~Svetaswan

Marc Martin

Apr 19, 2010; 11:07pm

Re: Digital converter (for t.v.) problems - help

Administrator

> So would finding a non-switching equivalent power supply reduce
> the "harmful emissions" coming out of the laptop itself - and lead to a
> more tolerable computer?

We should probably get some feedback from people who have actually
experimented with this. For me, I tend to use the power supplies
that came with the electronics...

Marc

Marc Martin

Apr 20, 2010; 1:54am

Re: Digital converter (for t.v.) problems - help

Administrator

In reply to this post by Svetaswan-2

> I wonder if I tried "grounding"
> the device, would that make a difference?

Maybe -- certainly I've seen companies that sell grounding wires for
that very purpose.

> I also noticed that the power supply's plug is not 3-pronged (grounded) -
> although it is plugged into a surge protecter that *is* 3-pronged. Does
> plugging a 2-pronged device into a 3-pronged power strip "ground" the
> device?

No, you'd need to have a power supply that has a 3-prong plug.

Marc