Compact fluorescents

That is a bummer.

The LED bulbs I was referring to, are here on Ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=16037&item=320072054014

I guess I shouldn't be surprised they are not all of a similar design.

Stewart

Marc Martin wrote:

Before you get too bummed, realize that what Shoeshoe is pointing out
may or may not be an issue for you, and what she is calling
"fluorescent" is dramatically different in concept and operation from
the flourescent lamps you are familiar with.

Regular (tube-style) and compact fluorescent bulbs are mercury vapor
discharge lamps with a phosphorescent powder coating on the inside of
the glass. There are numerous things about most fluorescent bulbs
that cause radiated electromagnetic fields.

- the electrical discharge itself through the long bulb
- the electronic ballast (now usually switching-style) which
generates a lot of "electrical noise"
- RF noise generated by the arc inside the bulb
- magnetic field radiated by the transformers in the ballast circuitry
- in addition to these sources of EMFs, most fluorescent lamps
"flicker" rapidly

NONE of these applies to LEDs. Assuming a manufacturer doesn't
"mess it up" by using a switch-mode or transformer power conversion
circuit, there is NO measurable electromagnetic field (EMF) from an
LED other than the spectrum of the light itself.

What shoeshoe is pointing out is that some LEDs (and ones likely to
be found in white colored LEDs) use phosphors which absorb and re-
radiate the light from the LED junction at a different wavelength in
order to produce a more pleasing color of light. It is this use of
phosphors that I assume she is calling "fluorescent". Shoeshoe,
please correct me if I'm wrong about your meaning.

This use of phosphors in LEDs does not in any way change the LEDs to
output a higher electric or magnetic field, but it does produce a
different "light spectrum". Some people (like Shoeshoe) are
apparently sensitive to the spectra produced by phosphorescent
materials, and have a reaction to them.

This certainly doesn't appear to apply to everyone that is ES, and
maybe not even to most -- as far as I can tell, I am sensitive to the
EMF field and noise produced by the ballast and discharge of typical
fluorescent lamps, but although I find some of the spectra of some
LED lamps "not pleasing", I can't detect any electrical sensitivity
to the fluorescent LEDs.

It may be you just need to try it. There are clearly some people
who appear to be bothered by halogen lights, which (without a
ballast) produce no measurable EMF either.

Garth

On Feb 15, 2007, at 9:42 AM, S. Andreason wrote:

> NONE of these applies to LEDs. Assuming a manufacturer doesn't
> "mess it up" by using a switch-mode or transformer power conversion
> circuit

I wonder if there is any way to tell if an LED bulb is using any RF
generating components (in advance, without buying it and testing it) ?
For example, some LED bulbs advertise themselves as being "dimmable",
while others say that they are not dimmable. Does this tell us
anything useful?

Marc

I think Garth has it about right. I suspect it is the
chemicals/elements used in making the leds fluorescent, and the
resulting wavelength because before that was done, older ones never
bothered me.

I'd suggest anyone sensitive to regular fluorescents not go nuts with
leds till you've spent a lot of time with one, maybe even a
flashlight, and just leave it on in your room all night, or nearby
all day... see if you notice any problems.  

I thought they were great before being improved, but you know, if it
isn't broke, fix it till it is... :)

It may not have a measurable rf, but they absolutely have emf. As has
been discussed before, absolutely everything does.

I don't know their wavelength as I haven't looked it up. Radio
doesn't seem to bother me much, but microwave and seriously x-ray do.

There is something out there that can measure them, but I haven't
looked it up.

I did grab some links that might be useful for anyone wanting to know
a little more about the leds:

========

http://www.worldchanging.com/archives/003669.html 
"It is also imporant to understand that the quantum dot stuff is just
another fluorescent material, put on top of a short-wave LED."

Quantum dot: A nanocrystal. Since the term emphasizes the quantum
confinement effect it typically refers to the sub-class of
nanocrystals that are small enough to exist in the quantum
confinement regime, and more typically refers to fluorescent
nanocrystals in the quantum confined size range.
www.qdots.com/live/render/content.asp

Fluorescence definition: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluorescent

Phophor definition: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosphor#White_LEDs

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photoluminescence

=============
http://www.sylvania.com/BusinessProducts/MaterialsandComponents/Lighti
ngComponents/Phosphor/FluorescentLamps/ chemical makeup

~ Snoshoe
--- In [hidden email], Garth Hitchens <garth@...> wrote:
>
> Before you get too bummed, realize that what Shoeshoe is pointing
out  
> may or may not be an issue for you, and what she is calling  
> "fluorescent" is dramatically different in concept and operation
from  
> the flourescent lamps you are familiar with.
>
> Regular (tube-style) and compact fluorescent bulbs are mercury
vapor  
> discharge lamps with a phosphorescent powder coating on the inside
of  
> the glass. There are numerous things about most fluorescent
bulbs  
> that cause radiated electromagnetic fields.
>
> - the electrical discharge itself through the long bulb
> - the electronic ballast (now usually switching-style) which  
> generates a lot of "electrical noise"
> - RF noise generated by the arc inside the bulb
> - magnetic field radiated by the transformers in the ballast
circuitry
> - in addition to these sources of EMFs, most fluorescent lamps  
> "flicker" rapidly
>
> NONE of these applies to LEDs. Assuming a manufacturer doesn't  
> "mess it up" by using a switch-mode or transformer power
conversion  
> circuit, there is NO measurable electromagnetic field (EMF) from
an  
> LED other than the spectrum of the light itself.
>
> What shoeshoe is pointing out is that some LEDs (and ones likely
to  
> be found in white colored LEDs) use phosphors which absorb and re-
> radiate the light from the LED junction at a different wavelength
in  
> order to produce a more pleasing color of light. It is this use
of  
> phosphors that I assume she is calling "fluorescent". Shoeshoe,  
> please correct me if I'm wrong about your meaning.
>
> This use of phosphors in LEDs does not in any way change the LEDs
to  
> output a higher electric or magnetic field, but it does produce a  
> different "light spectrum". Some people (like Shoeshoe) are  
> apparently sensitive to the spectra produced by phosphorescent  
> materials, and have a reaction to them.
>
> This certainly doesn't appear to apply to everyone that is ES, and  
> maybe not even to most -- as far as I can tell, I am sensitive to
the  
> EMF field and noise produced by the ballast and discharge of
typical  
> fluorescent lamps, but although I find some of the spectra of some  
> LED lamps "not pleasing", I can't detect any electrical
sensitivity  
> to the fluorescent LEDs.
>
> It may be you just need to try it. There are clearly some people  
> who appear to be bothered by halogen lights, which (without a  
> ballast) produce no measurable EMF either.
>
> Garth

> http://www.worldchanging.com/archives/003669.html 
> "It is also imporant to understand that the quantum dot stuff is just
> another fluorescent material, put on top of a short-wave LED."

Also, you should note that LED lighting is still in its infancy, and
there are all sorts of ways still being considered to make the color of
the light more pleasing. The Quantum dots you are referring to
are a recent discovery, and have not yet been incorporated into
any commercial products.

So again, we probably need to pay close attention to the technology
used in specific products, as one may cause ES problems, while
another may not...

Marc

Hi,

That's probably going to depend on the individual. All the extra
bright LEDs which seems to be what they make now are fluorescent
bulbs, and they make me as ill as the ones that are called
fluorescent.

I posted a link some months back in here somewhere that tells you
everything you ever wanted to know about LEDs and more...

They are harmful to your eyes as well, when looking directly at them.

~ Snoshoe


--- In [hidden email], "Paresh" <sunmoonyoga@...> wrote:
>
>
> Are LED light bulbs good for e. sensitive people? Do you know of a
source? Thanks.
> Paresh
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~sunmoonyoga/
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

LEDs are NOT fluorescent bulbs.

LEDs are Light Emitting Diodes, which operate at low voltage/low
energy and direct current - should be no radiation whatever.


Fluorescents are high voltage and high frequency which radiate unless
they are well shielded.

Recent LEDs might have some tricky electronics in them that radiate,
but that's for someone else to dig into.

William



--- In [hidden email], "snoshoe_2" <snoshoe_2@...> wrote: them.
>
> ~ Snoshoe
>
>
> --- In [hidden email], "Paresh" <sunmoonyoga@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Are LED light bulbs good for e. sensitive people? Do you know of
a
> source? Thanks.
> > Paresh
> >
> > http://home.earthlink.net/~sunmoonyoga/
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

The compact fluorescents are supposed to be pretty nasty, leaking  
mercury and EMFs and more. Does anybody know about the compact full  
spectrum bulbs? The design is the same but they are supposed to be  
pretty clean. I love the idea of the compact bulb for environmental  
reasons but I don't like the fluorescents for the above reasons and  
also because they have an ugly light. The spectrum bulbs are  
obviously more expensive but if they, like the compact fluorescents  
used less electricity and lasted longer I would invest. The planet  
and I are worth it.

Yolanda

On Aug 12, 2007, at 6:46 PM, snoshoe_2 wrote:



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Do you have a link to the kind of bulb you mean?
I think if it's fluorescent it will probably emit RF, because
it has to raise the voltage some how. I would recommend
experimenting with LED bulbs. There's also some purple
coated regular bulbs that are supposed to match daylight.
I have a couple of them and I think they're a good idea if
you're stuck in artificial light during the day. They're pretty
expensive and don't save energy though.

On 8/13/07, Yolanda LaCombe <[hidden email]> wrote:

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]